Following $$$MrMarket$$$

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  • Karel
    Administrator
    • Sep 2003
    • 2199

    Following $$$MrMarket$$$

    I think I started a thread with this title some time ago, but now I'll start for real. A paper port; following $$$MrMarket$$$. Disclaimer: follow this port with real money at your own risk, not mine!

    How good is $$$MrMarket$$$ really? He boasts being the best stock picker in the world and beating the SP500 again and again. Now it is hard to disagree with a man with biceps like $$$MrMarket$$$'s. We'll leave that for other, more foolhardy persons. No, we're just going to follow His Hugeness. We do not strive to emulate him perfectly; we know our limits. So when we are going to invest in his picks, we are going to keep a healthy cash reserve of about 1/3 of the total portfolio. So for a full $$$MrMarket$$$ portfolio of 13 - 14 stocks, each position starting with $1,000, we start with $20,000 cash. This cash reserve also serves to rebalance. We start with 20 slots. Suppose 10 slots are full with $$$MrMarket$$$ picks. The 11th pick then gets 1/10 of the cash reserve, The 12th 1/9th of what remains, etc. You get the picture. BTW, $$$MrMarket$$$ doesn't rebalance, as far as I know. Why should he? He's $$$MrMarket$$$.

    Isn't $1,000 a bit puny? Well, it is a paper port, so who cares. Besides, at this position size our $10 commission per trade is going to eat a sizeable chunk of our profits. Will $$$MrMarket$$$ be able to beat that disadvantage? You bet. And we are following $$$MrMarket$$$, so we won't buy at the price $$$MrMarket$$$ buys, but at the close of the day.

    OK, so where does that get us? Our port starts 9/29/2003, when the first $$$MrMarket$$$ pick hit this board. In the meantime, $$$MrMarket$$$ scored 15 winners. Currently, there are 9 stocks in the Following $$$MrMarket$$$ portfolio: CBK, BEL, GGI, HAR, SSNC, SAFM, AACE, OFG and SPF.

    The port stands at 21,288.72 from the initial 20,000, or a 6.44% gain. How well did the S&P500 and the Nasdaq100 in that time? They scored gains of 13.15% and 11.47% respectively. Is that better? No, worse! Remember, we started with an empty port, and that port has been slow to fill. We are now at about 50%, and still dragging along more cash than we planned. On average, the port held 6.3 stocks; about half of the planned total and about one third of the total number of slots (cash reserve included). The returns for SPY and QQQ are for a fully invested portfolio. Divide those returns by 3 and you get 4.4% and 3.8% respectively. Order has been restored.

    Not that I don't expect this port to outpace both SPY and QQQ! But in this starting phase the Following $$$MrMarket$$$ port is even more handicapped than in full swing, so it is good to see things in perspective.

    Go $$$MrMarket$$$ !!!
    My Investopedia portfolio
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  • Karel
    Administrator
    • Sep 2003
    • 2199

    #2
    On 5-3 $$$MrMarket$$$ bought DECK. De port bought at the close for the day for 26.76, 1.5% under $$$MrMarket$$$'s price. Perhaps we can view this as a sign that the market is going down generally.

    The port stands at 20467 (+2.33%), SPY at 21789 (+8.95%) and QQQ at 21104 (+5.52%), so the anchor of cash didn't stop the port losing more (percentagewise) than the market. This isn't really surprising: $$$MrMarket$$$ stocks have shown good momentum, and as soon as the momentum drops off, pure momentum investors get (stopped) out. $$$MrMarket$$$ expects these stocks to come back, as long as they continue to grow revenue and earnings.

    I have added the open positions to the spreadsheet. Apart from the 15 winners (average 14% by the rules of this portfolio), we have 10 (temporary) losers, for an average gain per position of 1.6%.

    Go $$$MrMarket$$$ !!!
    My Investopedia portfolio
    (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

    Comment

    • Karel
      Administrator
      • Sep 2003
      • 2199

      #3
      No changes, but I will update the value of the port each week. The close of the portfolio (and SPY and QQQ) on 5-14:

      MM: 20059 - 0.30%
      SPY: 21805 - 9.03%
      QQQ: 20972 - 4.86%

      Currently the Following MrMarket Portfolio is in a dip. It lost 2%, While SPY gained a little and QQQ lost under a percent. The market was rocky, and that might be a reason. We'll wait for some better weather. Hmm, reminds me of the Heavy Weather Port, gone under with MrMarket's Yahoo board.

      Regards,

      Karel
      My Investopedia portfolio
      (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

      Comment

      • Karel
        Administrator
        • Sep 2003
        • 2199

        #4
        The close of the portfolio (and SPY and QQQ) on 5-21 (FMM: Following $$$Mr.Market$$$$):[code:1:b5031637f6]FMM 20,024
        SPY 21,760
        QQQ 21,134[/code:1:b5031637f6]QQQ made a move up, the Following $$$Mr.Market$$$ port and SPY remained flat.

        And it wasn't the Heavy Weather Port, but the Heavy Weather Report, in case anyone cares.

        Regards,

        Karel
        My Investopedia portfolio
        (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

        Comment

        • Karel
          Administrator
          • Sep 2003
          • 2199

          #5
          This week MrMarket sold SAFM and bought NUTR. So did the FMM portfolio. SAFM went for 44.17, the target (MM sold for 44.43) and NUTR was bought at the close of yesterday for 24.05 (MM bought for 24.21).

          The totals:[code:1:aeca643ec4]FMM 20,550 (+2.75%)
          SPY 22,364 (+11.82%)
          QQQ 22,058 (+10.29%)[/code:1:aeca643ec4]Still only 50% percent invested, the port did really well, with a 1% gain for the week. SPY gained a bit less, and QQQ did a bit better. Virtually every stock gained (the exception was SSNC), so the winners/losers statistic is looking up. There are 17 winners now (I count from the start of this board), one of which is an open position, and 9 losers, all open positions.

          Regards,

          Karel
          My Investopedia portfolio
          (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

          Comment

          • Karel
            Administrator
            • Sep 2003
            • 2199

            #6
            NUTR is the champion this week with a 7.5% gain (for the portfolio) in its first week. This good news was offset a bit by CBK (-10% on dropping same store sales and lower Q1 earnings forecast) and SSNC (-13% on news of a stock offering). The latter is bothersome for existing stockholders, but not as bad as CBK's news. When revenue is rising and earnings are dropping, that is not a good sign. A real MrMarket stock should continue to grow its earnings. But it is a bit early to give up on CBK after the first disappointing quarter. (OK, Q2 is supposed to be down too.) GGI and AACE made nice weekly gains of 3% and 4.5%, respectively.

            The FMM port stands at 20,477 (-.36%), SPY was essentially flat and QQQ dropped 1%.

            Regards,

            Karel
            My Investopedia portfolio
            (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

            Comment

            • Karel
              Administrator
              • Sep 2003
              • 2199

              #7
              Just keeping score: the Following MM portfolio now stands at 20,401 (-.4%)

              Regards,

              Karel
              My Investopedia portfolio
              (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

              Comment

              • Karel
                Administrator
                • Sep 2003
                • 2199

                #8
                Well, what happened in the two weeks since the last post?

                18/6, MrMarket sold HAR for 89.31, exactly the target price, so we book exactly the same for this portfolio.
                22/6, MrMarket bought DW for 38.37. The port buys at the close of the day, this time for 38.40. OK.
                25/6, MrMarket sold CHKE, but that was an older holding, from before this board. This means that the new pick will bring the number of filled slots to 11 (from 14 stock slots).

                Something else happened too. I have been reporting SPY and QQQ to compare with the Following MrMarket portfolio. I compared against fully invested SPY and QQQ portfolios, and this made the Following MrMarket portfolio look bad. After all, the Following MrMarket port is still in a build-up stage. So I redid the SPY and QQQ portfolios and added one slot whenever the next slot got filled for the FMM port. Great, so now the FMM port is on top? What else do I cook the numbers for? No, the FMM port is not on top. It now stands at 20,566, while SPY stands at 20,897 and QQQ stands at 20,857. But now the numbers are more comparable. Of course, when all stocks slots are full, the SPY and QQQ ports are fully invested and the FMM port only 70% or so. But I have modelled the FMM as a timid investor.

                OK, so what does this mean, seeing that The Huge One himself claims to beat the indexes handily every year, and now again with CHKE over the period of holding it? Well, that occasionally the portfolio may drop behind. This is one of those times. That's all.
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                Comment

                • Karel
                  Administrator
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 2199

                  #9
                  CHKE hasn't been replaced yet, but the news from the portfolio isn't bad. It remained essentially flat, at 20,572, at a time when our benchmark ports with SPY and QQQ dropped to 20,770 and 20,650, respectively. When we realize that the Following MM port is designed to drag more cash around, that looks really, really good.

                  Perhaps more illuminating is to see what influence the stocks in the red have on the FMM portfolio. If we take CBK, a company that is struggling a bit the last few quarters, we see that it stands at about a $400 loss (in the FMM portfolio). All stocks in the red draw the portfolio down for more than $2000. And yet the FMM portfo is in the black! For me, this is the true lesson of this period: it shows the wisdom of $$$Mr. Market's$$$ choice for a 14 stock portfolio. Diversification is necessary! If only to make the difference between looking at a 40% loss in the one stock you bought, and a modest gain over your whole portfolio.

                  Some have said on this forum that two stocks might be optimal, but that just isn't true. It might work in a bull market; but then, in a bull market anything works. There has also been a question: which stock currently in the red to buy. Well, the portfolio has them all (from CBK onward). Their losses are already in the portfolio value. So if just any one of them turns around, the FMM port will look, well,
                  Huge
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i dont think doing worse than the market is something to cheer about. I still think mr. market is a good stock picker but this year is just isnt his year.

                    damn it would have been nice if we have mr. market's previous year returns as compared to the s & p


                    he had a lot of winners last year so im sure he was way ahead but it would have been nice




                    personally i believe its better to compare mr. market to the russell 2000 since most of mr. market's picks seem to be small cap

                    Comment

                    • Karel
                      Administrator
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 2199

                      #11
                      Originally posted by indo
                      i dont think doing worse than the market is something to cheer about...
                      Quite right, so I didn't cheer. When I notice that my wimpy portfolio is really not too far away from SPY and QQQ, I am moderately pleased. This means, too, that a portfolio that would aim to be invested fully would stand at about 20,800 (rough estimate). One of the reasons I keep this portfolio so modest, BTW, is because I want to temper expectations. If I succeed in tempering those to gloom and doom, I am afraid I am over-, or rather undershooting my target. I am a cautious guy, but I see no reason for pessimism.

                      I like the Russell 2000 suggestion and added an analysis with IWM, an ETF for the Russell 2000. The result for a portfolio that invested $1428.57 (1/14th of 20,000) each time the FMM portfolio added another $1000 position would have resulted in 21,150 now (with about 5700 in cash, just like the SPY and QQQ portfolios).

                      Yes, it is nice to be in a Bull Market with Mr.Market riding the bull. The funny thing is that his method hasn't broken down yet under adverse circumstances, as far as I know. Unless you want to call this breaking down

                      Regards,

                      Karel
                      My Investopedia portfolio
                      (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

                      Comment

                      • Karel
                        Administrator
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 2199

                        #12
                        This week $$$Mr.Market$$$ bought NUS. The FMM portfolio followed suit at the close of the day and hauled it in for 23.66. ($$$Mr.Market$$$ paid 24.28!) Well, what about the totals?

                        The portfolio dropped to 20,073, and the shadow portfolios now stand at: SPY 20618, QQQ 20216, IWM 20679. The portfolio got hit rather hard, more or less in line with QQQ and IWM (Russell 2000), but SPY kept up a lot better. We'll just hang in: most of the stocks picked are still excellent stocks; and they are almost sure to turn around when the market shows some inclination to go up.

                        Regards,

                        Karel
                        My Investopedia portfolio
                        (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

                        Comment

                        • Karel
                          Administrator
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 2199

                          #13
                          No fun this week. Only three stocks were up (SPF, AACE, and NUS), and some of the other ones got hit really hard. The FMM portfolio now is in negative territory: 19,807, from starting out with 20,000. That means a loss of 1.3% for the week. In comparison, SPY now stands at 20473 (-.7%), QQQ at 19737 (-2.4%), and IWM at 21804. I think I made some error last week in IWM, because IWM dropped 2% for the week. So the FMM port isn't really doing too bad, compared to the indices.

                          Regards,

                          Karel
                          My Investopedia portfolio
                          (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

                          Comment

                          • Karel
                            Administrator
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 2199

                            #14
                            Well, the results for BEL were even worse than expected, and the stock dropped 40%. On the positive side: SSNC gained some 33%! Not quite enough to offset the loss in BEL. All in all it wasn't a nice week for the FMM portfolio, now at 19,543, or -1.3% for the week. To compare: the SPY portfolio is at 20,473 (-1.2%), QQQ at 19,532 (-1%) and IWM at 21,397 (-1.9%). My conclusion: the FMM portfolio is still holding its own. Of course, I would like it to do better than that!

                            Regards,

                            Karel
                            My Investopedia portfolio
                            (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

                            Comment

                            • Karel
                              Administrator
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 2199

                              #15
                              Now, my bookkeeping for the IWM shadow portfolio won't earn me a prize. Two weeks ago I noted an anomaly (it was unexpectedly much higher), but that week was were the error must have crept in. Those 21K values were much too high.

                              Back to business. BEL could drop even deeper and is now facing the usual. NUTR joined the throng of troubled stocks, missing earnings rather spectacularly. The good news was NUS, of course (the Following Mr. Market portfolio is supposed to have limit orders in place, so in selling it may be a Leading Mr. Market port), but other stocks recovered nicely too. So we are again in positive terrain, at 20,060 (+2.6% for the week). SPY: 20,492 (+0%); QQQ: 19,835 (+1.5%) and IWM: 20303 (IWM rose 1.6%, so this would probably be about 1.2%).

                              Now isn't that an amaaaazing recovery, with BEL and NUTR down so much? Let's call it the power of diversification!

                              Regards,

                              Karel
                              My Investopedia portfolio
                              (You need to have a (free) Investopedia or Facebook login, sorry!)

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