The Art Of War

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  • IIC
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2003
    • 14938

    The Art Of War

    There is a book called the Art Of War written by Sun Tzu, circa 500AD. The book has been recommended to me and I ordered the Special Edition.

    It is actually about War...But business people have been using it for years. I've read mixed reviews. One problem is that those who are not Chinese may not truly understand the meanings behind different statements...Well, I'm not Chinese but I'm somewhat familiar with the culture...And I guess I can always ask someone who is Chinese, when I don't understand something.

    I don't want to hear anything about how Mao Zedong used this book...It was written 2,000 years ago and my intention is to offer some excerpts from each of the 13 chapters over a couple of weeks on this thread. My intentions are not political here...Maybe you'll find something useful to apply to your business or investing...Maybe you won't...But I know I have from just the excerpts...That's why I ordered the book...Best, Doug(IIC)

    Chapter One

    I. LAYING PLANS

    1. Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State.

    2. It is a matter of life and death, a road eitherto safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.

    3. The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    4. These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth; (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.

    5,6. The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

    7. Heaven signifies night and day, cold and heat, times and seasons.

    8. Earth comprises distances, great and small; danger and security; open ground and narrow passes; the chances of life and death.

    9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

    10. By method and discipline are to be understood the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions, the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the control of military expenditure.

    11. These five heads should be familiar to every general: he who knows them will be victorious; he who knows them not will fail.

    12. Therefore, in your deliberations, when seeking to determine the military conditions, let them be made the basis of a comparison, in this wise:--

    13. (1) Which of the two sovereigns is imbued with the Moral law? (2) Which of the two generals has most ability? (3) With whom lie the advantages derived from Heaven and Earth? (4) On which side is discipline most rigorously enforced? (5) Which army is stronger? (6) On which side are officers and men more highly trained? (7) In which army is there the greater constancy both in reward and punishment?

    14. By means of these seven considerations I can forecast victory or defeat.

    15. The general that hearkens to my counsel and acts upon it, will conquer: let such a one be retained in command! The general that hearkens not to my counsel nor acts upon it, will suffer defeat:--let such a one be dismissed!

    16. While heading the profit of my counsel, avail yourself also of any helpful circumstances over and beyond the ordinary rules.

    17. According as circumstances are favorable, one should modify one's plans.

    18. All warfare is based on deception.

    19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

    20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.

    21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.

    22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

    23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.

    24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.

    25. These military devices, leading to victory, must not be divulged beforehand.

    26. Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose.
    "Trade What Is Happening...Not What You Think Is Gonna Happen"

    Find Tomorrow's Winners At SharpTraders.com

    Follow Me On Twitter
  • IIC
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2003
    • 14938

    #2
    Chapter II.WAGING WAR

    1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war, where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots, as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front, including entertainment of guests, small items such as glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor, will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day. Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

    2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.

    3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.

    4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

    5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

    6. There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.

    7. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.

    8. The skillful soldier does not raise a second levy, neither are his supply-wagons loaded more than twice.

    9. Bring war material with you from home, but forage on the enemy. Thus the army will have food enough for its needs.

    10. Poverty of the State exchequer causes an army to be maintained by contributions from a distance. Contributing to maintain an army at a distance causes the people to be impoverished.

    11. On the other hand, the proximity of an army causes prices to go up; and high prices cause the people's substance to be drained away.

    12. When their substance is drained away, the peasantry will be afflicted by heavy exactions.

    13,14. With this loss of substance and exhaustion of strength, the homes of the people will be stripped bare, and three-tenths of their income will be dissipated; while government expenses for broken chariots, worn-out horses, breast-plates and helmets, bows and arrows, spears and shields, protective mantles, draught-oxen and heavy wagons, will amount to four-tenths of its total revenue.

    15. Hence a wise general makes a point of foraging on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy's provisions is equivalent to twenty of one's own, and likewise a single picul of his provender is equivalent to twenty from one's own store.

    16. Now in order to kill the enemy, our men must be roused to anger; that there may be advantage from defeating the enemy, they must have their rewards.

    17. Therefore in chariot fighting, when ten or more chariots have been taken, those should be rewarded who took the first. Our own flags should be substituted for those of the enemy, and the chariots mingled and used in conjunction with ours. The captured soldiers should be kindly treated and kept.

    18. This is called, using the conquered foe to augment one's own strength.

    19. In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.

    20. Thus it may be known that the leader of armies is the arbiter of the people's fate, the man on whom it depends whether the nation shall be in peace or in peril.
    "Trade What Is Happening...Not What You Think Is Gonna Happen"

    Find Tomorrow's Winners At SharpTraders.com

    Follow Me On Twitter

    Comment

    • skiracer
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2004
      • 6314

      #3
      I've never read it through but have read several of the chapters over the years. One thing it doesn't tell you is how to maintain your composure in the face of apparent death when you're sure the end is near. It speaks of patience and being deliberate in your actions but doesn't explain how to muster those characteristic traits. It's good reading but not entirely like living the reality of taking another human beings life for whatever the reasons and living with that reality for the rest of yours. A nice treatise in concept but far from the reality an actuality of a living war.
      THE SKIRACER'S EDGE: MAKE THE EDGE IN YOUR FAVOR

      Comment

      • IIC
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2003
        • 14938

        #4
        Originally posted by skiracer
        I've never read it through but have read several of the chapters over the years. One thing it doesn't tell you is how to maintain your composure in the face of apparent death when you're sure the end is near. It speaks of patience and being deliberate in your actions but doesn't explain how to muster those characteristic traits. It's good reading but not entirely like living the reality of taking another human beings life for whatever the reasons and living with that reality for the rest of yours. A nice treatise in concept but far from the reality an actuality of a living war.
        I have no intention of taking it verbatim...I'm more interested in getting some tips on self-discipline...In reading reviews...there are some that recommend some other reading prior to more fully understand what he is talking about...But I'm going ahead anyway...Patience may not be my best virtue...Doug(IIC)
        "Trade What Is Happening...Not What You Think Is Gonna Happen"

        Find Tomorrow's Winners At SharpTraders.com

        Follow Me On Twitter

        Comment

        • skiracer
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2004
          • 6314

          #5
          Originally posted by IIC
          I have no intention of taking it verbatim...I'm more interested in getting some tips on self-discipline...In reading reviews...there are some that recommend some other reading prior to more fully understand what he is talking about...But I'm going ahead anyway...Patience may not be my best virtue...Doug(IIC)
          Doug,
          Never intended to dissuade you from reading it through. From what I have read it's entertaining and a good read. Everything is what you make of it an I'm sure you will get alot out of it. Like everything in life it's always harder to apply the concepts one learns into appllications that will alter your personality in a more positive fashion. I've always felt that is the trick and the hardest part of learning.
          THE SKIRACER'S EDGE: MAKE THE EDGE IN YOUR FAVOR

          Comment

          • billyjoe
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2003
            • 9014

            #6
            Doug,
            I don't know about "many calculations lead to victory" "few calculations result in defeat". It's often said that investors who think too much will fail, We've all heard "keep it simple, stupid". One area that facinates me in investing is performing several seemingly unrelated calculations that lead to the same end result.

            billyjoe

            Comment

            • IIC
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2003
              • 14938

              #7
              Originally posted by billyjoe
              Doug,
              I don't know about "many calculations lead to victory" "few calculations result in defeat". It's often said that investors who think too much will fail, We've all heard "keep it simple, stupid". One area that facinates me in investing is performing several seemingly unrelated calculations that lead to the same end result.

              billyjoe
              I believe you make an excellent point billy...Doug
              "Trade What Is Happening...Not What You Think Is Gonna Happen"

              Find Tomorrow's Winners At SharpTraders.com

              Follow Me On Twitter

              Comment

              • Websman
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2004
                • 5545

                #8
                Originally posted by billyjoe
                Doug,
                I don't know about "many calculations lead to victory" "few calculations result in defeat". It's often said that investors who think too much will fail, We've all heard "keep it simple, stupid". One area that facinates me in investing is performing several seemingly unrelated calculations that lead to the same end result.

                billyjoe
                The Vulcan way of trading is extremely simple. To much information can cloud a Vulcan mind. Not to mention the fact that I am also a redneck...my brain gets overloaded very easy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Somewhere in that Book they have a quote that goes something like this if memory serves me right.
                  “In war prepare for peace, and in Peace prepare for war.” Could that saying apply to the markets in anyway?

                  I say yes. It is when you think about how smart you are and how bulletproof normally indicates when the tides will change from Peace to War in your trading account as we all know when things are really going good it is just a matter of time when things begin to change. Is it during the good times that we need to plan for the bad?

                  Comment

                  • IIC
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2003
                    • 14938

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Runner
                    Somewhere in that Book they have a quote that goes something like this if memory serves me right.
                    “In war prepare for peace, and in Peace prepare for war.” Could that saying apply to the markets in anyway?

                    I say yes. It is when you think about how smart you are and how bulletproof normally indicates when the tides will change from Peace to War in your trading account as we all know when things are really going good it is just a matter of time when things begin to change. Is it during the good times that we need to plan for the bad?
                    Or to prepare to avoid it...IIC
                    "Trade What Is Happening...Not What You Think Is Gonna Happen"

                    Find Tomorrow's Winners At SharpTraders.com

                    Follow Me On Twitter

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by IIC
                      Or to prepare to avoid it...IIC
                      IIC, IMO as long as there are man on this planet their will always be war. Greed, Pride, and Power have a way of bringing out the worst in people. Nations will always use peacetime to train for battle. As the battles change one adapts to the change and it is those changes that must be taken to win in battle. Adapting to change in combat is often done in seconds to minutes and those changes often change the outcome of the battle. Combat in the Cities requires different plans compared to fighting in the jungle. Those who fail to adapt to changes in battle will often be defeated. It is the sense of defeat that leads to destruction of the defeated force

                      Comment

                      • IIC
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 14938

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Runner
                        IIC, IMO as long as there are man on this planet their will always be war. Greed, Pride, and Power have a way of bringing out the worst in people. Nations will always use peacetime to train for battle. As the battles change one adapts to the change and it is those changes that must be taken to win in battle. Adapting to change in combat is often done in seconds to minutes and those changes often change the outcome of the battle. Combat in the Cities requires different plans compared to fighting in the jungle. Those who fail to adapt to changes in battle will often be defeated. It is the sense of defeat that leads to destruction of the defeated force
                        I appreciate all these comments.. The intention is to see what we can learn about trading...Think outside the box...Dig deeper...Isn't trading a war?...Made up of many battles???...Win enough battles...you win the war.

                        Adapting...Great point...I go into this week thinking that the market will do "X"...Something happens to change that...So now I think "Y" will happen.
                        "Trade What Is Happening...Not What You Think Is Gonna Happen"

                        Find Tomorrow's Winners At SharpTraders.com

                        Follow Me On Twitter

                        Comment

                        • billyjoe
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2003
                          • 9014

                          #13
                          If you do many calculations for battle, how do you know they are the proper calculations? If I do 50 TA calculations they would be worthless to Spike's 10 TA calculations. Even if I'm very confident I just don't know enough about TA to make the right choices. By chance if I do the proper TA I'll still misinterpret the results. The correct calculations and interpretation still don't work 100% of the time making the whole process even more complicated.

                          billyjoe

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by billyjoe
                            If you do many calculations for battle, how do you know they are the proper calculations? If I do 50 TA calculations they would be worthless to Spike's 10 TA calculations. Even if I'm very confident I just don't know enough about TA to make the right choices. By chance if I do the proper TA I'll still misinterpret the results. The correct calculations and interpretation still don't work 100% of the time making the whole process even more complicated.

                            billyjoe
                            Planning for battle is simply that. Once the battle begins the plan often is altered. Combatants engaged in battle are never guaranteed the next second of life as anything can happen in war.

                            One is never ready for war but only prepared based on the planning. Is there a correlation in trading to the words I just wrote?

                            I think I may need to cease from this thread as it gets my grasshopper juices flowing!!lala

                            Comment

                            • skiracer
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2004
                              • 6314

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Runner
                              Planning for battle is simply that. Once the battle begins the plan often is altered. Combatants engaged in battle are never guaranteed the next second of life as anything can happen in war.

                              One is never ready for war but only prepared based on the planning. Is there a correlation in trading to the words I just wrote?

                              I think I may need to cease from this thread as it gets my grasshopper juices flowing!!lala
                              So it does come back down to the "plan". It always does. In trading, like war, without a strong disciplined plan the battle is lost before it starts. I think that is a strong part of what the book is trying to convey.
                              THE SKIRACER'S EDGE: MAKE THE EDGE IN YOUR FAVOR

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