Is Lay Lying ?

[Lyehopper]

POTW defined....

Sorry I don't know what those things are. You may have noticed that I only post in very short or MM pick threads due to my incredibly short attention span.

Now what was that again?

Well I didn't expect you'd know about the VTP.... Knowledge of that will come as you spend more time at this fine forum....

But I invite you to visit the Portfolio of the Week thread (By BillyJoe) "POTW".... and play the weekly contest with about 30-35 of the regular's here. It's fun. A copy of the contest rules can be found at the bottom of any of our scorekeeper "Rob's" posts....

[Websman]

Beleive me.... I know everything that's going on at my company. I communicate with my key people constantly and they answer to me directly. I drive the growth with my vision for the company and then have my hand selected people carry it through.

oooooooooooohhhhhhhh.... That expains why you learned the VTP so fast.

[skiracer]

Do you run one of the hottest Fortune 50 companies with your picture and name plastered all over business and finance mags and talked about 24/7 on CNBC?

Are you on a first name basis with the POTUS and VPOTUS, Kenny boy?

Is the stock in your company blasting through the roof because you thought up some new, incredibly sophisticated and cutting edge financial instruments, but no one can really figure out how you make money?

Are you in talks with India to overhaul their energy supply infrastructure?

Do you have so many sub companies, partnerships, etc. that your accountants can't even keep up with them all.

Are some of your subs run by totally independent managers that rake in the earnings year after year without you doing a thing?

Does your CPA firm and law firm sign off on everything and all the complicated transactions that the analysts would never understand anyway and besides you disclose it in the footnotes, kind of?

- Just some of my favorite things about Enron.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to state. My position is firmly planted in the belief that Lay knew everything that was going on and that he ok'ed all of it. Because of the magnitude of the business and the far ranging variables of the business they we're involved in I'm sure that he didn't know every little situation that was going on across the world but that he did set the main policy of fraudeulent accounting practices and deceiving everyone with those practices.
I have two projects underway right at the moment and their total finished value is somewhere in the range of $38 million. I'm responsible for everything that goes down with both of those projects. The buck stops with me and whoever I place in positions and delegate authority to perform. I know everything that anyone I delegate authority to is doing and if they are lying, cheating, or stealing, from me or anyone of my principals then it is my responsibility for their actions an I am the one to blame in the end. And so is Lay as CEO. You can talk until you're blue in the face but you'll won't persuade me of anything different. If you're in charge it's your responsibility.

[Lyehopper]

oooooooooooohhhhhhhh.... That expains why you learned the VTP so fast.

At VTP Central I answer directly to you.... btw.... Did you hand pick me for the VTP?.... I can't remember exactly how that happened.... AND.... What is that little scar on the back of my head anyway.

[Lyehopper]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to state. My position is firmly planted in the belief that Lay knew everything that was going on and that he ok'ed all of it. Because of the magnitude of the business and the far ranging variables of the business they we're involved in I'm sure that he didn't know every little situation that was going on across the world but that he did set the main policy of fraudeulent accounting practices and deceiving everyone with those practices.
I have two projects underway right at the moment and their total finished value is somewhere in the range of $38 million. I'm responsible for everything that goes down with both of those projects. The buck stops with me and whoever I place in positions and delegate authority to perform. I know everything that anyone I delegate authority to is doing and if they are lying, cheating, or stealing, from me or anyone of my principals then it is my responsibility for their actions an I am the one to blame in the end. And so is Lay as CEO. You can talk until you're blue in the face but you'll won't persuade me of anything different. If you're in charge it's your responsibility.

I'm sure Lay told his people.... "What ever it takes to grow earnings.... JUST DO IT".... Sure.... I know we're just a utility company.... but we're a GROWTH utility company".... lol

Can you imagine the pressure to attempt to get consistant double digit growth out of a freakin' Utility Company?

[IIC]

You only hear about the one's that get caught...IIC

[lemonjello]

If you're firmly planted, then you must be correct?

It's virtually impossible for a huge public company CEO to monitor everything so closely even if he worked 24/7 and was the smartest guy in the room. Maybe he could have a feel for the utility part of the business - the complex financial instruments they used were being created continuously and most of the time only the people in that particular department would know what was really going on.

You remember he wasn't the CEO during the time most of the shenanigans were occuring? Skilling was CEO and resigned immediately after the partnerships started failing. Add in the fact that it was a pretty heady time for Lay - I don't get calls from the VPOTUS on energy policy, do you? Suffice it to say he did a lot of delegating to trusted upper management.

The whole Enron rise and fall is a lot more complicated than most people realize. There are several books out on Enron - Bethany Mclean has a book and wrote the original mag article that started Enron's fall-, a movie and some TV mini series. The legislative history of Sarbanes-Oxley or the Powers Report could be a great Saturday afternoon read. A cursory google reveals this interesting article -

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,201871-1,00.html

Ok. My attention span is failing fast.

Good trading everyone.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to state. My position is firmly planted in the belief that Lay knew everything that was going on and that he ok'ed all of it. Because of the magnitude of the business and the far ranging variables of the business they we're involved in I'm sure that he didn't know every little situation that was going on across the world but that he did set the main policy of fraudeulent accounting practices and deceiving everyone with those practices.
I have two projects underway right at the moment and their total finished value is somewhere in the range of $38 million. I'm responsible for everything that goes down with both of those projects. The buck stops with me and whoever I place in positions and delegate authority to perform. I know everything that anyone I delegate authority to is doing and if they are lying, cheating, or stealing, from me or anyone of my principals then it is my responsibility for their actions an I am the one to blame in the end. And so is Lay as CEO. You can talk until you're blue in the face but you'll won't persuade me of anything different. If you're in charge it's your responsibility.

[Lyehopper]

It's virtually impossible for a huge public company CEO to monitor everything so closely even if he worked 24/7 and was the smartest guy in the room. Maybe he could have a feel for the utility part of the business - the complex financial instruments they used were being created continuously and most of the time only the people in that particular department would know what was really going on.

You remember he wasn't the CEO during the time most of the shenanigans were occuring? Skilling was CEO and resigned immediately after the partnerships started failing. Add in the fact that it was a pretty heady time for Lay - I don't get calls from the VPOTUS on energy policy, do you? Suffice it to say he did a lot of delegating to trusted upper management.

The whole Enron rise and fall is a lot more complicated than most people realize. There are several books out on Enron - Bethany Mclean has a book and wrote the original mag article that started Enron's fall-, a movie and some TV mini series. The legislative history of Sarbanes-Oxley or the Powers Report could be a great Saturday afternoon read. A cursory google reveals this interesting article -

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,201871-1,00.html

Ok. My attention span is failing fast.

Good trading everyone.

Hey SkiRacer.... How about this LemonJello Dude?!.... I like this cat, he's pretty sharp.

Welcome to the Forum "Lem".... Now what stocks do you like dude?

[skiracer]

Hey SkiRacer.... How about this LemonJello Dude?!.... I like this cat, he's pretty sharp.

Welcome to the Forum "Lem".... Now what stocks do you like dude?

Never said or implied he wasn't smart just naive to believe that Lay is innocent or not knowing what was going on. But everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want. I just can't get by accepting that that level of management didn't get reports from the lower levels as to what was being done and that the policy wasn't being set from the upper tiers from the CEO down. It may have been someone else's ideas or concepts to do what they did but the approvals came from the top on down. That's how it works. Would one of your lower managers or foreman instigate some dramatic new policy that might have adverse effects, an might be illegal in doing so, without running it by someone until it filtered up to you through management levels until you saw it and made a decision to either go with it or not? I just don't see that happenning in a small company or a large one like Enron.

[billyjoe]

Just in , Enron Trial Update !

At last the truth is finally coming out. So far Enron CEO, LAY has named the following bad guys. I'll keep you updated as the list grows.

1. Fastow
2.Wall Street Journal
3.Conspiring Short Sellers
4.The Accountants
5. The Lawyers
6. His Investor's Relations Staff

Lay says Enron had a fundamentally sound balance sheet then and still does as far as he's concerned. Let's all go out and buy some......can we still get it?
Lay testified today that he read almost word for word whatever his staff put in front of him. That's what I call leadership! "Everyone signed off on the figures, so they must have been totally accurate" said Lay. "I wanted to get it all out a month earlier" (equity adjustment figures) "but they wouldn't let me, wah, wah, wah" said Lay.

I'm not making most of this stuff up.

billyjoe