Louetta's Lore

[Tatnic]

Structure, enviromental, water, or traffic? How do you like it?

Little bit of everything, but no traffic. If you are considering a career in engineering I'd strongly advise against it. The time you spend doing actual engineering is not nearly enough to justify the effort that goes into becoming an engineer. I miss the engineering, ie design and problem solving, but not the rest which is the bulk of being an engineer. Besides, the trend these days is to out-source engineering to India and China because its considered a commodity. Higher end engineering like electrical or computer might be a different ballgame. But if you're gonna expend that kind of effort you'd be better off in finance, law or medicine/healthcare where the rewards justify the effort. Just my opinion, and good luck to you.

[skiracer]

Little bit of everything, but no traffic. If you are considering a career in engineering I'd strongly advise against it. The time you spend doing actual engineering is not nearly enough to justify the effort that goes into becoming an engineer. I miss the engineering, ie design and problem solving, but not the rest which is the bulk of being an engineer. Besides, the trend these days is to out-source engineering to India and China because its considered a commodity. Higher end engineering like electrical or computer might be a different ballgame. But if you're gonna expend that kind of effort you'd be better off in finance, law or medicine/healthcare where the rewards justify the effort. Just my opinion, and good luck to you.

I have a degree in Civil Engineering. Took me 12 years of night school after I got married to finish up what started out as an Accounting curriculum. My career has evolved into construction management and I do some pretty large projects I very seldom use the math. The architects take care of the rest of the design work but it is nice to comprehend whatever it is they are talking about and putting down on paper. But having the degree does get you into some doors. Alot of people like to see that you have it and consider you more professional because of it. Just get the degree in anything and build on it from that point.

[Louetta]

Methinks that is strange...I wish you no bad luck on your Jan Calls...But I think they will expire worthless...Sorry...Doug

This may be. Will be interesting to see what the next earnings report says. If their guidance for the year is in any way accurate the next two earnings reports have to be huge. If the next one is that will help. That's the original rationale for the January calls.

[Rob]

The architects take care of the rest of the design work but it is nice to comprehend whatever it is they are talking about and putting down on paper.

Years ago I did estimating for a custom woodwork and cabinet shop. We did some pretty high-end work up and down the eastern seaboard with a lot of smaller, more local jobs in between, in order to keep from having to lay off anyone. Such is the nature of business when you're located in a city of 100,000 population, and it's the biggest city around for hundreds of miles. But my experience in dealing with architects is that they really take a lot more credit than they deserve. The details they are supposed to specify are horribly inadequate. If you read the spec books they provide for a given job (I was particularly concerned with the 6400 section) they are nothing but a nightmarish hodgepodge of cut and pasted sections of text from earlier projects, resulting in many instances where one section contradicts another. There is all kinds of other fun stuff too, due to architectural laziness. I remember once bidding on a project that called for a specific type of hardware. I could find it nowhere, and after spending half a day chasing this wild goose, I finally found the manufacturer somewhere in Texas. They told me that that particular hardware item had gone out of production ten years earlier. They often leave out so much detail, leaving so much to subjective interpretation, that the bidders who are competing against one another are bidding on packages that aren't even close to the same thing. In many ways I would argue that the world of commercial architecture epitomizes the Peter Principle. There was another occasion in which we were asked to bid on the renovation of an old downtown building. This renovation included the rebuilding of the store front window section on the first floor. The only thing the drawings showed was 1/4"-1' scale elevation. No sections, no material spec, nothing. In order to bid this thing, I had to design it first. When we submitted our bid to the GC, the boss told me to include my section drawings with the bid, overriding my suggestion that we don't. Sure enough, somebody else won the bid, and sure enough, when the job was finished, the store front was built precisely as I had designed it in every detail. But guess who took the credit (and the payment) for the design. The architects.

[Lyehopper]

Years ago I did estimating for a custom woodwork and cabinet shop. We did some pretty high-end work up and down the eastern seaboard with a lot of smaller, more local jobs in between, in order to keep from having to lay off anyone. Such is the nature of business when you're located in a city of 100,000 population, and it's the biggest city around for hundreds of miles. But my experience in dealing with architects is that they really take a lot more credit than they deserve. The details they are supposed to specify are horribly inadequate. If you read the spec books they provide for a given job (I was particularly concerned with the 6400 section) they are nothing but a nightmarish hodgepodge of cut and pasted sections of text from earlier projects, resulting in many instances where one section contradicts another. There is all kinds of other fun stuff too, due to architectural laziness. I remember once bidding on a project that called for a specific type of hardware. I could find it nowhere, and after spending half a day chasing this wild goose, I finally found the manufacturer somewhere in Texas. They told me that that particular hardware item had gone out of production ten years earlier. They often leave out so much detail, leaving so much to subjective interpretation, that the bidders who are competing against one another are bidding on packages that aren't even close to the same thing. In many ways I would argue that the world of commercial architecture epitomizes the Peter Principle. There was another occasion in which we were asked to bid on the renovation of an old downtown building. This renovation included the rebuilding of the store front window section on the first floor. The only thing the drawings showed was 1/4"-1' scale elevation. No sections, no material spec, nothing. In order to bid this thing, I had to design it first. When we submitted our bid to the GC, the boss told me to include my section drawings with the bid, overriding my suggestion that we don't. Sure enough, somebody else won the bid, and sure enough, when the job was finished, the store front was built precisely as I had designed it in every detail. But guess who took the credit (and the payment) for the design. The architects.

Your former boss at that woodworking company (whom I happen to know) although a generally nice fella, lacks some common business sense imo. He owed me some money once, I called him repeatedly and always got the run around. I went by to visit him eye-to-eye.... he showed me his interim company financial statement (after I asked to see it) proving he had a negative cash flow in the business.... So that same day my attorney sent a letter to him, the GC and the University where the work was being done promising to put a mechanics lien against the project unless Ol' Lyehopper got paid.... His GC paid me the next day and docked the money from his job.

Hey Rob, It pays if you "get to know" the GC and the Architects. I'm sure the winning bidder in the story you related took someone out to a nice steak dinner. "BC" was very stupid to include your drawings.

[skiracer]

Rob,
Couldn't agree with you more. I have done a number of large projects in NJ, NY, PA, and have worked with numerous architects. Some were better than others but in general your comments are right on the money.
Right now I have two sites underway with a combined total of 68
4 story townhouses that are being built on pilings driven 20' into the ground and a grade beam formed and poured around them and the perimeter of the buildings. It's somewhat complicated because of several elevations between the site work and the architectural design of the buildings that must be 100 % on the money for everything to work out. It's a must that whoever is running the project be well versed with using a transit and implementing the site work engineers elevations with the architects design elevations. I really don't want to piss off any architects reading this but many of the architects that I have worked with leave alot to be desired as far as it being easy to implement their designs because of their shortcomings and their drawings. Another reason to be very well versed in their end of it to pick up any of their numbers that aren't going to work out. Not to mention that they move at a pace that is nowhere near conducive to anyone elses schedule. I could go on and on with examples across the board on their shortcomings but I see that you know what I am talking about.

[Tatnic]

Rob,
Couldn't agree with you more. I have done a number of large projects in NJ, NY, PA, and have worked with numerous architects. Some were better than others but in general your comments are right on the money.
Right now I have two sites underway with a combined total of 68
4 story townhouses that are being built on pilings driven 20' into the ground and a grade beam formed and poured around them and the perimeter of the buildings. It's somewhat complicated because of several elevations between the site work and the architectural design of the buildings that must be 100 % on the money for everything to work out. It's a must that whoever is running the project be well versed with using a transit and implementing the site work engineers elevations with the architects design elevations. I really don't want to piss off any architects reading this but many of the architects that I have worked with leave alot to be desired as far as it being easy to implement their designs because of their shortcomings and their drawings. Another reason to be very well versed in their end of it to pick up any of their numbers that aren't going to work out. Not to mention that they move at a pace that is nowhere near conducive to anyone elses schedule. I could go on and on with examples across the board on their shortcomings but I see that you know what I am talking about.

What do you call an engineer that flunked out of engineering school? An architect.

I have rarely picked up a set of architectural plans that works without significant field engineering. This has become the status quo and most architects could care less how the mechanics of the project work as long as their drawings and conceptual design are pretty and make a statement. I havce oftened wondered if most architects are gay and that only aesthetics matter (oh boy am I sticking my neck out here).

[Rob]

He owed me some money once, . . . His GC paid me the next day and docked the money from his job.

I remember that incident, because I was the one who bid that Rke. Col. job. That was very near the time I left that company. It was a nice place to work, but to a number of the employees it was apparent that the company was perpetually on a shoestring budget. I personally saw large hemorrhages of cash outflow in that company that to me seemed unnecessary, but hey, I just worked there; I wasn't in charge.

I have done a number of large projects in NJ, NY, PA, and have worked with numerous architects. Some were better than others . . . Another reason to be very well versed in their end of it to pick up any of their numbers that aren't going to work out. . . . I see that you know what I am talking about.

Yes, some ARE MUCH better than others, and I didn't intend to "broad-brush" all architects. Hey, you should apply to be the Donald's next Apprentice. I'm sure he's always looking for good supers.

[skiracer]

What do you call an engineer that flunked out of engineering school? An architect.

I have rarely picked up a set of architectural plans that works without significant field engineering. This has become the status quo and most architects could care less how the mechanics of the project work as long as their drawings and conceptual design are pretty and make a statement. I havce oftened wondered if most architects are gay and that only aesthetics matter (oh boy am I sticking my neck out here).

I deal with them everyday regarding hundreds of items in the buildings they design. We'll talk about something specific and they will have to incorporate it into their drawings and get the revised sketches or drawings back to you. Nine times out of ten I get the drawings back and the revisions are wrong. I think that with many of them the problem is that they have alot of work going on and their minds are filled to the limit. Coupled with the fact that most of them think their shit doesn't stink, think that they are smarter than everyone they are dealing with, and just aren't good listeners is the gist of the problem. But they have that seal and are almost indispensible because of the seal. I always find myself yesing them to death and stroking their egos to get things done my way dispite their shortcomings. It's like you almost have to know their job better than them and watch every step they make. In my position. I'm always the last one to get my ego stroked or to get some kind of acknowledgement for a job well done while I have to do it to everyone else. I don't really care about any of that and am really only interested in the money. So as long as the money keeps flowing I do what is necessary to keep the flow.

[Rob]

I have rarely picked up a set of architectural plans that works without significant field engineering. This has become the status quo and most architects could care less how the mechanics of the project work as long as their drawings and conceptual design are pretty and make a statement.

Bingo!

It's like you almost have to know their job better than them and watch every step they make.

Bingo!

In my position. I'm always the last one to get my ego stroked or to get some kind of acknowledgement for a job well done while I have to do it to everyone else. I don't really care about any of that and am really only interested in the money. So as long as the money keeps flowing I do what is necessary to keep the flow.

LOL! Amen, brutha.

[Louetta]

This may be. Will be interesting to see what the next earnings report says. If their guidance for the year is in any way accurate the next two earnings reports have to be huge. If the next one is that will help. That's the original rationale for the January calls.

HSOA roared into the 6-es this AM. Then kind of snuck back into the 5-es.

[billyjoe]

Louetta,
Are you giving poormans a hard time over at IBD ? Naughty !

--------billyjoe

[IIC]

Louetta,
Are you giving poormans a hard time over at IBD ? Naughty !

--------billyjoe

Billy...For a non-subscriber you sure seem to hang out over there a lot...LOL

[Louetta]

Louetta,
Are you giving poormans a hard time over at IBD ? Naughty !

--------billyjoe

Here's the deal. Yesterday a guy posted on Poorman's thread asking if the Poorman's methodology was not working in this market (he's either down for the year or just above 0). Anyway, when I checked today every stock in Poorman's model (15 I guess, I only had 14) was up. So I responded to yesterday's posting about the methodology not working saying all 14 were up. The guy responded saying lots of stuff was up today. I refrained from answering him. But. Do you realize even if 90% of stocks were up today (its probably more like 65%) the odds of picking 15 winners when the chnaces are 90% on each one are only 1 in 5. If its 80% then the odds of picking 15 winners are like 1 in 30. So its not luck or something. You can't dismiss 15 for 15 by saying well its a good day. But I didn't bother to respond, being the kindly flower child we all know I am.

[spikefader]

...There is all kinds of other fun stuff too...

Grammatical error?? SssSssSss