Why Are We In Iraq ?

[Peter Hansen]

Scary Stuff

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/14/162425.shtml?s=lh

[studentofthemarket]

What are you talking about?

I am a big fan of abolishing income tax and increasing sales tax on everything. That way, those of us who consume more pay more taxes. This would incentivize more investing and collect taxes from all income earners, especially those who don't pay taxes now.

Wow, when did you sleep through, the "who pays taxes class?"

increasing the sales tax on "EVERYTHING" (your word) would totally pound the lower income folks. Lower income people have many strikes against them regarding sales tax, they spend a great portion of their income on goods/services to get by. And Gas taxes really pound them because they typically drive farther to work, and use an older typically less fuel efficient vehicle to get there. Not to mention the fact that the rich consume less as a % of income. They would likely see rates drop. And that wouldn't sit well with the Pelosi's of the world, investment income would get taxed more, and well see below for how well that would work.


I got a better idea, to stick it to those rich people that don't pay taxes. Let's put a luxury tax on expensive things like Horses, cars, boats, planes and Jewelry. That should stick it to those rich people....


Oh Wait, that's been tried, WRT cars and boats anyway. Let's think about how that worked. Hmmm.... at least 3 boat builders in the Tampa St.Pete area went under when orders stopped. a Rich person looking at a product that is suddenly 25% more expensive, but not >25% better, isn't going to buy. So they didn't, and a whole bunch of people (my brother included) lost their jobs. That showed those rich people.

When that was repealed, the dealership(not builder) where my brother then worked sold several million in boats that first week. And sales grew and grew from there.



Student

[lemonjello]

There's a guy that's already got all these issues covered and he's running for President.


Judge Napolitano on Ron Paul - watch the series

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QwTKKSvR8

https://www.ronpaul2008.com

Check the issues

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/

[mrmarket]

I was part of a non-partisan group in the late seventies who proposed doing what has been said in this thread. I can write a lot about our experiences. I have since decided the best way to approach tax reform is to do it politically. Here are a few links -- not necessarily my views, just for information. There is a lot more out there..

One view of the Value added tax:
http://www.answers.com/topic/value-added-tax?cat=biz-fin
The FairTax:

• Abolishes the IRS
• Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
• Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
• Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
• Allows American products to compete fairly
• Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities
• Enables retirees to keep their entire pension
• Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

More links if you are interested:

Understanding Tax Reform: A Guide to 21st Century Alternatives (2005)


http://www.freedomworks.org/informed/issues_template.php?issue_id=2389

I am a big fan of abolishing income tax and increasing sales tax on everything. That way, those of us who consume more pay more taxes. This would incentivize more investing and collect taxes from all income earners, especially those who don't pay taxes now.

[mimo_100]

I was part of a non-partisan group in the late seventies who proposed doing what has been said in this thread. I can write a lot about our experiences. I have since decided the best way to approach tax reform is to do it politically. Here are a few links -- not necessarily my views, just for information. There is a lot more out there..

One view of the Value added tax:
http://www.answers.com/topic/value-added-tax?cat=biz-fin
The FairTax:

• Abolishes the IRS
• Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
• Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
• Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
• Allows American products to compete fairly
• Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities
• Enables retirees to keep their entire pension
• Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

More links if you are interested:

Understanding Tax Reform: A Guide to 21st Century Alternatives (2005)


http://www.freedomworks.org/informed/issues_template.php?issue_id=2389

[riverbabe]

" we should all just stop paying our taxes. don't send in the money unless they can give a decent accounting for what they have spent. ... we should tell them to shove it up their asses. don't pay your taxes and see where they get the money and how fast it will stop".

The above is an UNEDITED copy of part of Ski's post...I'm not trying to read anything into it...I'm responding to what he said

Understood. But you and I both know that this is just "vintage Ski." I just basically agree with his premise that a wake-up call is needed and that this might be a quick way to do it without working through the lumbering bureaucracy. I think we could formulate a plan that would send the message without being felonius. Ski is a very savvy guy and I think we might make a good team to think this one through. It might be a very bad idea or a possibly good one. But I know we would have the smarts and the guts together to accept or reject after discussion. River

[IIC]

However, a River/Ski team might be very effective! All it takes is courage and conviction and both of us have those in spades.

And Peanuts, this would not be as disruptive as you might imagine. It could be a one-day event that sends a powerful expensive message.

Doug, a moratorium just postpones sending that amount of taxes on that particular day. It doesn't mean those taxes will be evaded. It means we just aren't sending them today. It's a wake-up call, not a felonius act. And we probably will incur some kind of late payment penalties.

" we should all just stop paying our taxes. don't send in the money unless they can give a decent accounting for what they have spent. ... we should tell them to shove it up their asses. don't pay your taxes and see where they get the money and how fast it will stop".

The above is an UNEDITED copy of part of Ski's post...I'm not trying to read anything into it...I'm responding to what he said

[riverbabe]

Fair enough...I happen to reject his proposal that we all become tax evading felons.

However, my take is that he is really just a harmless blowhard that in reality has no intention of organizing, much less leading a taxpayer revolt.

However, a River/Ski team might be very effective! All it takes is courage and conviction and both of us have those in spades.

And Peanuts, this would not be as disruptive as you might imagine. It could be a one-day event that sends a powerful expensive message.

Doug, a moratorium just postpones sending that amount of taxes on that particular day. It doesn't mean those taxes will be evaded. It means we just aren't sending them today. It's a wake-up call, not a felonius act. And we probably will incur some kind of late payment penalties.

[IIC]

Doug,

I think that Skiracer IS doing something by sharing his opinion and providing a point of view for for others to think about, accept or reject. The ones who keep silent are the ones who we need to be more concerned about.

Fair enough...I happen to reject his proposal that we all become tax evading felons.

However, my take is that he is really just a harmless blowhard that in reality has no intention of organizing, much less leading a taxpayer revolt.

[peanuts]

America the beautiful

What a wonderful country we live in to be able to distribute our thoughts without fear of government retribution or censorship.

Some of the successes of America can be attributed to its ability to adapt new ideas and change old governmental systems to reflect a better way of doing things. This can sometimes take years, but can also happen very quickly. There is a process to effectively facilitate change. Not paying taxes has also been such a daring and reprehensible action that even some of our countries early revolutionaries couldn't bear to cast tea crates into Boston Harbor without dressing up as Native Americans in disguise.

A governmental system which doesn't work in fairness to all is a system nonetheless. Systems can change. Unfortunately, for the time it takes to effect this change, it still needs money to keep doing whatever good things are already in place, while at the same time doing the bad things which need to change.

Perhaps an effort to focus on a positive and constructive system change would be more benefitial to all citizens than a disruptive and negative defiance to the current system.

I'll take Abraham Lincoln over Mahatma Gandhi any day.

[riverbabe]

Tax Payer Revolt

I owned HAL when KBR was spun off this year. I declined the KBR stock because, just reading the prospectus, it was clear to me that there were a lot of shady things going on. I told my broker I wasn't going to touch it with a ten foot pole, and he said he personally was not either for the same reasons. And I used to respect KBR because of the engineering work they did 20+ years ago. What a change and what a disappointment to me personally.

I agree with Ski on this one. We need to take a stand. If these companies are stealing tax payer dollars, we the taxpayers should simply go on a tax strike. It should take the government less than 24 hours to sit up and take notice. I will volunteer to help organize it. We start by convincing companies to put a moratorium on payroll tax withholding, at least federal. We want to keep the states running so the moratorium wouldn't have to be on state withholding or even on social security withholding. With the mood in this country right now re. Iraq I think there would be sufficient support for this type of strike to make it meaningful. A tax payer revolt seems a very appropriate way to express our displeasure.

And, come to think of it, there are probably enough participants in this forum alone, scattered around the country, to be a nucleus for organizing such a national revolt. Is anyone else here with me? I am deadly serious here. Riverbabe

[billyjoe]

Today's Headline July 10th "China Executes Former Food and Drug Chief for taking Bribes". I hope our officials give thanks everyday that they were born in U.S.A.

-------------billyjoe

[Peter Hansen]

Mr Market I agree

Mr Market.....I agree with your opinion expressed above. I also realize that what Doug had said in his comments above ....i.e. that the Forum is Primarily a fianancial site is true .....but sometimes it is good to deviate slightly from the forum and introduce a topic to liven up the discussions. Yes political issues are very tricky, and they can incite some violent reactions. It was never my intent to do this by starting the original post .
Life is short , why spoil it with petty aruments . Be happy, enjoy life and remember ......"Live each day as if it were your LAST day.........and one day ....you will be right ........think about it!

[mrmarket]

Ski...let me know when visiting hours are at Leavenworth.

I really get so tired of people complaining about the USA and never doing anything about it.

You don't like America???...I'd be happy to pay for a one way ticket to Angola for you.

Stop complaining and start trying to change things if you don't like it here.

Posting your political objections on a Stock forum is not my idea of contributing to a better life in America.

I don't like a lot of the way things are in my neighborhood (Which I happen to have been a local activist on many issues) up to the Federal level, which I have never taken an activist stance on...But, I'm of the ilk that if you don't like it...You got three choices...Try to do something about it, leave or shut up and live with it.

Doug,

I think that Skiracer IS doing something by sharing his opinion and providing a point of view for for others to think about, accept or reject. The ones who keep silent are the ones who we need to be more concerned about.

[skiracer]

Ski...let me know when visiting hours are at Leavenworth.

I really get so tired of people complaining about the USA and never doing anything about it.

You don't like America???...I'd be happy to pay for a one way ticket to Angola for you.

Stop complaining and start trying to change things if you don't like it here.

Posting your political objections on a Stock forum is not my idea of contributing to a better life in America.

I don't like a lot of the way things are in my neighborhood (Which I happen to have been a local activist on many issues) up to the Federal level, which I have never taken an activist stance on...But, I'm of the ilk that if you don't like it...You got three choices...Try to do something about it, leave or shut up and live with it.

Doug,
I've got more bodies in hand to hand combat than you have on your fingers and toes. I've done everything that this country has asked me to do for it and more. I'll probably rot in hell for some of it and you tell me that I can't voice me opinion. I never said that I didn't like it here just that this administration is a group of thieves and they have been fleecing this country for the past 8 years.
What have you done in your lifetime to make it better or to preserve our way of life. This administration is selling us out and apparently your naive enough to believe it. By the way Ernie initiated the thread I didn't. It was supposed to be an open forum. I'm not shoving anything down anyone's throat just voicing an opinion like you. And you should know me enough by now to know that I could care less what you think.