Grebnet's Two Cents

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  • grebnet
    Moderated
    • Oct 2003
    • 389

    #76
    OK lets talk IRONY

    I just sat on my porcelain throne where I get some of my more enjoyable research .
    I opened the June issue of SFO ( its free and occasional has something I find interesting) that I got in the mail yesterday.

    Page 57 article

    " TRADING AND GAMBLING More similar Than You May Like to Admit "
    I havent read it yet but will today.

    MESINSLOT adalah situs slot gacor gampang menang terbaru slot88 dengan link slot yang gampang menang dan strategi maxwin terbaik untuk hasil maksimal terbaru slot88 maxwin.

    Ill try pasting article for non subscribers.

    Life is full of risks, I think as I step on the scale and watch the numbers spin to a point they’ve never reached before. My weight would constitute an epic bull market if a technician were to chart it: a straight line up on high volume of trans-fats, carbohydrates and refined sugars. I am concerned and wish I could control my yearnings, but after years of futile efforts I have finally given up. We all have our shortcomings. Some men like strip clubs and have lovers on the side. I prefer strip steaks with fries on the side. I believe it was the great philosopher Ronald McDonald, who, paraphrasing Descartes, said, “I eat, therefore I am.” This more or less sums up my attitude.

    I know that my insurance company’s actuarial tables say that on average, someone like me will die prematurely, but that is a gamble I am willing to take. The odds may be against me based on vast numbers of overweight middle-aged men, but in a large sample, averages can be misleading. Some percentage of fatties will live well beyond the average, and I think I’ll be one of them. Sure, I could throw out the Cap’n Crunch and eat brussel sprouts to improve the odds in my favor, but there is a quality of life consideration that cannot be ignored; I like Cap’n Crunch, and brussel sprouts taste, well, like brussel sprouts. In defining risk and reward and determining how much of each one is comfortable with, such matters only seem facetious on the surface.

    As a professional trader, I probably have a more developed sense than most for the role gambling plays in our lives. After all, my days and nights consist of a series of trading decisions, every one of which is a gamble. Even the decision not to trade constitutes a gamble because the outcome of the decision to do nothing results in either the avoidance of a loss (hurray!) or the missing of an opportunity (*!@@!*). Whether active or passive, I am constantly trying to figure out the odds and turn them in my favor. What is the chance that the Bank of Japan will intervene? How likely is it that a stock that has closed lower for ten consecutive days will rally on Day 11? What is the probability that gold will stay above $600 per ounce, and how in the world did I miss the move from $450?

    And yet, one need not be a trader to be forced to deal with risk literally every moment. Is it safe to walk down that dark street? Should I rent or buy? For a million dollars, is that your final answer? In fact, there is an endless series of decisions that every human being addresses in the course of daily life and varying degrees of risk and reward associated with each decision.

    More Than Lady Luck
    When I was a young trader, far less experienced in the markets and life than I am now, it bothered me whenever I heard anyone say that trading is nothing more than gambling. I don’t know which disturbed me more: the self-righteous “church lady” tone with which the comment was invariably offered, or the underlying suggestion that trading was a game of luck and that if traders were consistently making profits, the game must be fixed in their favor. It was easy enough to answer these critics. Luck, whatever role it plays, can be either good or bad, and on average (there’s that phrase again), the good and bad will cancel each other out. As for participating in a rigged game, I had plenty of losing trades to prove this contention false, and if there was a “conspirator’s ball” where the rules governing the grand scheme to defraud the unwashed trading masses were agreed upon, my invitation must have gotten lost in the mail. Still, I resented the implication that what I did for a living was tantamount to tossing a pair of weighted dice or playing cards with a marked deck.

    Over time, however, I began to view things somewhat differently. It became obvious to me as my own account balance grew and as I watched other successful traders operate, that my best trades were ones in which I carefully considered the odds of a potential outcome and entered into transactions based on those expectations. In some cases, my entry and exit prices were determined by formal calculations that arose out of technical studies I performed each day before, during and after market hours. In other cases, I used my intuition and experience to guide me. For example, one of the single best trades I ever made occurred on the last trading day of the year. A very large order came into the pit and I knew I could make a wide price because many of the best traders were on vacation and there would be little competition for the trade. In other words, I would not have wanted to touch the trade at a price of X, which is where the market would have priced it had a normal amount of liquidity been available. But, at a price of X+25%, I had no qualms about making a market because the odds were weighted so heavily in my favor that a good outcome was virtually assured. Although I still deny the idea that the market is a fixed game, I am willing to admit it is very much a game — a game in which there are inefficiencies, such as the one described above, that a smart trader can use to advantage.


    click image for larger view

    Why the House Always Wins
    It is beyond the scope of this article to compare trading to each of the familiar games one finds in casinos, but a fundamental principle that all casinos and all successful traders understand is that, irrespective of the game being played, if the house has a mathematical edge over the player, the law of averages ensures that in the “long-run” the house will win. In fact, for our purposes, an excellent definition of the “long-run” is enough games so that someone making good (bad) bets will win (lose). The number of games required for the desired or dreaded outcome is contingent on how good or bad the bets are.

    The game of roulette offers a simple illustration of this truism. In American casinos, a roulette wheel consists of 38 slots into which the roulette ball can come to rest after the spin. Players can bet on 36 of the slots, with two slots reserved for the house. The house, however, pays off as if there were only 36 slots, collecting 2/38 of all money bet, or 5.26 percent. This is the house edge, which guarantees eventual profitability and ensures that the long-term gambler will leave the casino with little more than a discount coupon for Elvis World and—he hopes—his airplane ticket home. There are a number of bets one can place in the game of roulette. Bets are taken on single numbers or on combinations of two, three, four, six, 12 or 18 numbers. The fewer numbers chosen, the higher the odds (e.g., if one bets on two numbers the odds are 17 to one, while a bet on 18 numbers is an even money bet. Because these odds are for a 36-slot roulette wheel, not a 38-slot wheel, the house edge stays at 5.26 percent.)



    We can show, mathematically, the rate at which gamblers will lose to the house. A full explanation of this phenomenon requires an understanding of various statistical distributions and the concept of standard deviation. However, leaving aside the math, it is still possible to appreciate the fundamental truth: The greater the number of bets against the edge, the greater the likelihood that the gambler will walk away a loser. Consider the following table, which enumerates the probability of earning a profit after various numbers of equal sized bets against various house edges. (The table comes from an excellent book called Probabilities in Everyday Life by John D. McGervey. McGervey is a professor of physics at Case Western University, so we can presume his calculations are accurate.) What is interesting about this chart is that it shows even with a tiny edge of 1.5 percent, the house still ends up the winner in the long run. Clearly there is no way to overcome the statistical certainties associated with the house edge. While it is possible for a gambler to make bad bets and get lucky for a period of time, this cannot last for more than a short while.

    Counting Cards
    So, if the key to winning in the long-run is obtaining the edge, how does one do that; in essence, how does a trader become the house? A look at the game of blackjack and the technique of card counting is instructive. In blackjack, the casino edge is relatively small (approximately one percent) and a smart player who knows when to draw additional cards and when to stand can bring the odds down to even. For example, you can make certain assumptions based on the dealer’s obligation to take or stand, and your own total, that will dictate your next move. There is a fairly long and complicated list of rules, and exceptions to those rules, that one must master in order to have a possibility of beating the house. Without going into the minutiae of the game, it is interesting that while ultimately luck governs which cards the player gets, playing blackjack seems a lot like trading the market. In order to be successful, one needs to take the opportunities presented and respond in a manner that allows the trader to capitalize best on those opportunities. In other words, with each hand (trade), one has to assess the probability of the outcome and bet (position) accordingly.

    What card counters do is to pay close attention to each hand while they are playing at a table and keep track of the cards that have been dealt. Their goal is to find advantageous situations—specifically, when a lot of small cards have been dealt and the deck is rich with tens and aces. At that point, the odds switch in favor of the bettor, giving an edge of one to two percent over the house and allowing the bettor to increase the sizes of his/her bets. Casinos do not want card counters—well, not good card counters; bad card counters are welcome to stay until their money runs out—for the simple reason that a good card counter can actually win in the long run, and taking a long-run risk is completely antithetical to the fundamental principle upon which all casinos are based. Casinos have made it difficult for card counters to succeed by raising the number of decks used at a table, thus forcing the card counter to remember increasingly large sequences of hands dealt.

    Ironically, while this reduces the number of advantageous situations, these situations do still occur, and because there are multiple decks they continue on for longer than they would if only, say, two decks were being used. Casinos will banish card counters when they catch them, which eventually leaves the card counter with few places to count cards. Nevertheless, card counting individuals and teams persist in trying to outsmart the casinos and take the house’s money, and some must be doing it successfully.

    Stick to the System
    In fact, Blair Hull, who, before he became a legendary trader, was part of a card-counting team in Las Vegas, has said about the practice,“If I had no money, there is no doubt in my mind about where I’d go.” He also has said something that every trader ought to think about: “It’s not the mathematical skill that’s critical to winning, it’s the discipline of being able to stick to the system. There are very few people who can develop the skills to get the edge, and far fewer still who can withstand the losses emotionally and stick with the system. Probably only one in five hundred people has the necessary discipline to be successful.”

    One in five hundred! As hyperbolic as that may sound on the surface, I wouldn’t bet against it. In fact, if Hull’s definition of a successful trader is, well, Blair Hull, then 500 to one sounds generous. I also have to agree with his assessment that while players (traders) possessing the skills required to be successful are infrequently found, rarer still are those who have the discipline to execute the rules that must be implemented in order to succeed.

    As far as I’m concerned, this lesson, that success follows discipline, is the most valuable thing we can learn in trying to compare the games we play with the markets we trade. So, maybe, just maybe, I’ll try the brussel sprouts. I hear they taste really good if you smother them in butter.

    Comment

    • peanuts
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2006
      • 3365

      #77
      Originally posted by grebnet
      I just sat on my porcelain throne where I get some of my more enjoyable research .
      I opened the June issue of SFO ( its free and occasional has something I find interesting) that I got in the mail yesterday.

      Page 57 article

      " TRADING AND GAMBLING More similar Than You May Like to Admit "
      I havent read it yet but will today.

      MESINSLOT adalah situs slot gacor gampang menang terbaru slot88 dengan link slot yang gampang menang dan strategi maxwin terbaik untuk hasil maksimal terbaru slot88 maxwin.

      Ill try pasting article for non subscribers.
      Thanks, I printed the article, and now I'm heading to the throne room...

      Ironic, yes
      Hide not your talents.
      They for use were made.
      What's a sundial in the shade?

      - Benjamin Franklin

      Comment

      • grebnet
        Moderated
        • Oct 2003
        • 389

        #78
        CNXT---Not my style

        Originally posted by sisterwin2
        cnxt has just been upgraded............ I was in at 2.20 and should of cash out a month ago.. looking at chart I see a lot of gaps to be filled...

        I am "hoping" since I didnt stick to plan. What do you think?
        CNXT is not my style. Not that it wont go up , but I as a rule limit my stock to ones with positive earnings and little to no debt .

        CNXT fails both of those initial screening criteria. so not for me.
        It does have a nice revenue growth pattern and appears to be getting ready to turn positive on earnings,BUT has a huge amount of debt. That is a drag on any company.

        Good luck

        Comment

        • Websman
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2004
          • 5545

          #79
          Here's two that I'm watching Greb...

          SVL

          EZEN

          I've owned both and sold both for a profit, but could have made more. I may get back in one or both of them soon.

          Comment

          • grebnet
            Moderated
            • Oct 2003
            • 389

            #80
            Ezen

            Originally posted by Websman
            Here's two that I'm watching Greb...

            SVL

            EZEN

            I've owned both and sold both for a profit, but could have made more. I may get back in one or both of them soon.
            Ive owned EZEN since $1.79 have traded several times and own a decent chunk still.

            SVL , i dont know but the news after market that insiders will be selling 8 million shares at $3.50 will drag the stock for a while.

            Comment

            • mrmarket
              Administrator
              • Sep 2003
              • 5971

              #81
              [QUOTE=grebnet]I just sat on my porcelain throne where I get some of my more enjoyable research .

              Why the House Always Wins
              It is beyond the scope of this article to compare trading to each of the familiar games one finds in casinos, but a fundamental principle that all casinos and all successful traders understand is that, irrespective of the game being played, if the house has a mathematical edge over the player, the law of averages ensures that in the “long-run” the house will win. In fact, for our purposes, an excellent definition of the “long-run” is enough games so that someone making good (bad) bets will win (lose). The number of games required for the desired or dreaded outcome is contingent on how good or bad the bets are.

              QUOTE]


              Actually, the real reason that the house always wins is because it has more money than you. The mathematical proof is as follows;

              Let two players each have a finite number of pennies (say, for player one and for player two). Now, flip one of the pennies (from either player), with each player having 50% probability of winning, and transfer a penny from the loser to the winner. Now repeat the process until one player has all the pennies.

              If the process is repeated indefinitely, the probability that one of the two player will eventually lose all his pennies must be 100%. In fact, the chances and that players one and two, respectively, will be rendered penniless are

              (1) P1 = n2 / (n1+n2)
              (2) P2 = n1 / (n1+n2)

              i.e., your chances of going bankrupt are equal to the ratio of pennies your opponent starts out to the total number of pennies.

              Therefore, the player starting out with the smallest number of pennies has the greatest chance of going bankrupt. Even with equal odds, the longer you gamble, the greater the chance that the player starting out with the most pennies wins. Since casinos have more pennies than their individual patrons, this principle allows casinos to always come out ahead in the long run. And the common practice of playing games with odds skewed in favor of the house makes this outcome just that much quicker.

              This holds true even if the player has a slight edge. Of course, if the player has a brain, he will "quit when he is ahead"..usually the Titans have a problem quitting when they are ahead...but 2 weekends ago, we scorched the Hilton for $16,000....jejejejeje
              =============================

              I am HUGE! Bring me your finest meats and cheeses.

              - $$$MR. MARKET$$$

              Comment

              • mrmarket
                Administrator
                • Sep 2003
                • 5971

                #82
                Mathematical explanation of "Gambler's Ruin"

                The Gambler's Ruin
                Consider a game that gives a probability q of winning 1 dollar and
                a probability (1-q) of losing 1 dollar. If a player begins with
                10 dollars, and intends to play the game repeatedly until he either
                goes broke or increases his holdings to 20 dollars, what is his
                probability of going broke?

                This is commonly known as the Gambler's Ruin problem. For any given
                amount h of current holdings, the conditional probability of going
                broke before reaching 20 dollars is independent of how we acquired
                the h dollars, so there is a unique probability p_h of going broke
                on the condition that we currently hold h dollars. Of course, we
                can immediately set p_0 = 1.0 and p_20 = 0.0. The problem is to
                determine the values of p_h for h between 0 and 20.

                The key point to realize is that in order to arrive at holdings equal
                to h dollars after playing a round of the game, we must have held
                either h+1 or h-1 dollars just prior to that round. When we were in
                one of those states we had (by definition) a probability of p_{h+1}
                or p_{h-1} respectively of going broke. Also, the conditional
                probability that we just came from the state "h-1" is q (which is
                the probability that we won the round), and the probability that
                we just came from state "h+1" is (1-q). Now, the probabililiy of
                going broke from the state p_h is just the linear combination of
                these two

                p_h = q * p_{h-1} + (1-q) * p_{h+1} (1)

                This gives us a second-order linear recurrence relation that must
                be satisfied by the values of p_h. If q and 1-q are distinct (meaning
                that q is not equal to exactly 1/2), the general form of such a
                recurrence is a linear combination of successive powers of any two
                independent particular solutions. One particular solution is
                obviously p_h = 1 for all h. Also, it's not hard to verify that
                p_h = [(1-q)/q]^h is also a particular solution. Therefore, the
                general solution of the recurrence is of the form

                p_h = A [1]^h + B [(1-q)/q]^h

                where A and B are constants to be determined by our two boundary
                conditions, p_0 = 1.0 and p_20 = 0.0. Inserting these values
                gives the conditions

                1 = A + B

                0 = A + B [(1-q)/q]^20

                Setting r = (1-q)/q, this implies

                r^20 1
                A = - -------- B = ---------
                1 - r^20 1 - r^20

                Therefore, if a player is currently holding h dollars, his probability
                of going broke before reaching 20 dollars is

                r^h - r^20
                p_h = ----------------
                1 - r^20

                This was based on the assumption that q does not exactly equal 1-q,
                so that r is not equal to 1. If, on the other hand, q=1/2, we see
                that our two particular solutions 1^h and r^h are not independent.
                In this case the characteristic polynomial has duplicate roots, but
                another independent solution of the recurrence (1) is given by
                p_h = h. Therefore, the general form of the solution is A + Bh,
                and our boundary conditions require A = 1 and B = -1/20, so the
                total solution in this special symmetrical case is

                h
                p_h = 1 - ---
                20

                Hence, if we begin with 10 dollars, we have a 50% chance of going
                broke before reaching 20 dollars.

                Obviously we can replace 20 with any other threshold we choose. For
                any given initial holdings, if we increase our upper target from 20
                to some larger number, we see that our probability of going broke
                before reaching that number also increases. If we have no "quit
                while we're ahead" target, and simply intend to play the game
                indefinitely, our probability of eventually going broke approaches
                1.0 (which presumably is why this problem is called the Gambler's
                Ruin).

                In the above discussion we considered only the case when each step
                changed our holdings by one unit, up or down. We can also treat the
                more general problem of allowing more than two possible outcomes of
                each round, and allowing the steps to be of arbitrary sizes. For
                example, we might consider a game that has three possible outcomes,
                with probabilities a, b, and c changing our holdings by the amounts
                -1, +1, and +2 respectively. In this case the same reasoning that
                led to equation (1) leads to a third-order recurrence

                p_h = c * p_{h-2} + b * p_{h-1} + a * p_{h+1} (2)

                If we replace 20 with some arbitrary fixed threshold T, then we have
                three boundary conditions

                p_0 = 1.0 p_T = 0.0 p_{T+1} = 0.0

                noting that it's possible to end on either T or T+1. In this more
                general case we usually must simply solve the recurrence (2) in the
                traditional way, by finding the roots of the characteristic polynomial,
                and then expressing p_h as a linear combination of the hth powers of
                those roots, subject to the boundary conditions.

                This problem is essentially an example of a one-dimensional random
                walk. Of course, we can also represent this by a Markov model,
                and recursively generate the probabilities of having each particular
                value of holdings after the nth round of play, beginning from some
                specified initial holdings. This is an example of a diffusion
                process, with absorbing states at 0 and T, where all the probability
                eventually accumulates.
                =============================

                I am HUGE! Bring me your finest meats and cheeses.

                - $$$MR. MARKET$$$

                Comment

                • mrmarket
                  Administrator
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 5971

                  #83
                  Another explanation

                  Casino games
                  A typical casino game has a slight house advantage. The advantage is the long-run expectation, most often expressed as a percentage of the amount wagered. It remains constant from one play to the next. If the long-run expectation is expressed as a percentage of the amount that the player starts with, however, then the house advantage increases the longer the player continues.

                  For example, the official house advantage for a casino game might be 1%, and thus the expected value of return for the gambler is 99%. However, this math would only be true if the gambler never used the results of a winning bet again. Thus after gambling 100 dollars the idealized average gambler would be left with 99 dollars, but, if he continued to bet using his 99 dollars in winnings, he would again lose 1% on average and his expected value would go down to 98.01 dollars. This downward spiral continues until the gambler's expected value approaches zero: gambler's ruin.

                  The long-run expectation will not necessarily be the result experienced by any particular gambler. The gambler who plays for a finite period of time may finish with a net win, despite the house advantage, or may go broke much more quickly than the mathematical prediction.
                  =============================

                  I am HUGE! Bring me your finest meats and cheeses.

                  - $$$MR. MARKET$$$

                  Comment

                  • jiesen
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 5323

                    #84
                    I found gambler's ruin last night in my online poker account. My balance is now 0. Went all in with a KQ top pair, but lost to QJ which both paired... oh well, no more online poker for me.

                    Comment

                    • mrmarket
                      Administrator
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 5971

                      #85
                      Originally posted by jiesen
                      I found gambler's ruin last night in my online poker account. My balance is now 0. Went all in with a KQ top pair, but lost to QJ which both paired... oh well, no more online poker for me.

                      I think that there is a bill about to be voted on to make online gaming illegal.
                      =============================

                      I am HUGE! Bring me your finest meats and cheeses.

                      - $$$MR. MARKET$$$

                      Comment

                      • sisterwin2

                        #86
                        Originally posted by mrmarket
                        I think that there is a bill about to be voted on to make online gaming illegal.
                        That would be a drag. I have been playing texas holding, started out with 500$ now up to 1700$. I love the game but it does take alot of time in which I should be learning how to play option. I seem to only average 1/43 hands played. I fold alot. I keep telling myself, "self, your ahead, cash out and stop this gambling, do something that is more useful and $$ making".

                        I also think even if they pass a law to make on-line gambling illegal, there will be too many ways around it. I thought it was already illegal. I do think that playing texas holding has taught me patience in trading.

                        Comment

                        • grebnet
                          Moderated
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 389

                          #87
                          Hom

                          All that discussion about HOM options yesterday and I missed what would have been a nice drop if I had sold calls. So instead I bought more HOM at $11.10 with a trade in mind to add to profits from this great stock.

                          Just Gambling that it will turn : )

                          Comment

                          • billyjoe
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2003
                            • 9014

                            #88
                            Biggest upgrades week ending 5/26/06 under $10

                            ITI , NYNY , IFUL , AMY , BORL , PDF , MRB

                            billyjoe

                            Comment

                            • grebnet
                              Moderated
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 389

                              #89
                              What a ride

                              Well its been a wild ride on the HOM rollercoaster. I was thinking of adding to HOM this am at 9.60 but decided My position was large enough.(woulda coulda shoulda. )

                              AERTA
                              - anyone playing along on this. been creeping up nicely.

                              GV- maybe warming up.

                              RGMI- has given back some, Im waiting for the hurricaine season. I still like it.

                              Comment

                              • Websman
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2004
                                • 5545

                                #90
                                I should have bought HOM today... Dangit.

                                Comment

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