Rob's Lobs

[billyjoe]

BJ....just because you didn't know how to work the system doesn't mean much. Farming is one of the most highly subsidized industries in this country, and its also one of the biggest employers of illegals. Should we be subsidizing that?

You should also check out the growing organic farming industry....that's where the money's being made, and its mostly small farmers who are doing it.

Tatnic,
If you ever tried growing 100% organically, without fertilizer or weed control, you'd spend all day hoeing a crop that might bring you $100 after 3 months. Lots of people talk "organic" . I've never seen anyone actually do it. Have you spent hours picking potato beetles off plants and the next day there's more than ever? Reality bites.

------------billyjoe

[Rob]

Just curious: do you mean this?

Not exactly, but parts of that would fit.

I just erased a lot of additional text I had written in addition to the above, because I really don't care to turn this into a big debate over ideologies.

[Karel]

Not exactly, but parts of that would fit.

I just erased a lot of additional text I had written in addition to the above, because I really don't care to turn this into a big debate over ideologies.

Thanks, now I have something of an idea. I feel totally unqualified for a debate of US politics/ideologies, but just felt curious.

Regards,

Karel

[Tatnic]

Tatnic,
If you ever tried growing 100% organically, without fertilizer or weed control, you'd spend all day hoeing a crop that might bring you $100 after 3 months. Lots of people talk "organic" . I've never seen anyone actually do it. Have you spent hours picking potato beetles off plants and the next day there's more than ever? Reality bites.

------------billyjoe

Like it or not, that's where the money's being made. Just google organic farming if you don't believe me.

[Tatnic]

Nor me, but who the heck is Barry?

If you think health care is expensive now, wait till you see how much it costs when it's "free."

Regardless of the yields (do you buy stocks for the dividends?) the bottom line earnings are what stand to take a hit in a heavy taxation environment.

The Bush administration, while having stimulated growth through tax cuts, has an abysmal record of big spending, even without the war on terrorists. In that regard the modern Republican party is too far left, but the modern Democratic party is so far left they've gone over the edge.

As far as Clinton goes, he had the benefit of "the peace dividend," thanks to the policies of ol' Dutch, which were met with resistance by the Dems at every turn. He also benefitted by the meat of the first Internet-age tech boom (a large factor in the 2000 bubble, by the way), as well as a House and Senate both controlled by Republicans for the final 75% of his administration.

Of course there's no way to know what would have happened if Carter had won in 1980 or Mondale in 1984. If Dukakis had won in 1988, would Kuwait now be part of Iraq? Who knows? If Gore had won in 2000 (which he didn't, as multiple Florida recounts showed) or Kerry in 2004, would the Dow be over 13,000 today? Who knows? It seems to me the economic outlook might be best when one party controls the White House and the opposing party controls both houses in congress.

It's just my opinion that any move toward further socialization is bad for the economy, as nearly a century of world history shows.

I wasn't argueing your opinions....you stated matter-of-factly that one would be better off investing in government bonds if democrats controlled both the w.house and congresss. There's little if any evidence to support that statement. Just to jog your memory, 19.3% annual rate of return over 6 years equals 188% gain. The repube. gain over the same period of time is 2.4%.

If the economy goes to hell in the coming years it will be on the republicans watch. Just like in a ball game when the pitcher walks 3 batters to fill the bases, gets pulled, and the next batter up clears the bases with a double. Those 3 runs are attributed to the pitcher who was pulled, not the poor sap who got stuck in that situation.

[skiracer]

Tatnic,
If you ever tried growing 100% organically, without fertilizer or weed control, you'd spend all day hoeing a crop that might bring you $100 after 3 months. Lots of people talk "organic" . I've never seen anyone actually do it. Have you spent hours picking potato beetles off plants and the next day there's more than ever? Reality bites.

------------billyjoe

In 1972 me and a couple of buddies of mine had the largest organic farming adventure in NJ. I think I may have posted on it in some much earlier post. Liza's farm. An old black lady friend of mine. 106 acres in Whiting, NJ. About 12 acres of cleared land. We farmed every bit of it and it took 30 /40 long haired hippy types to pick the potatoe beatles and horned green worms off the tomatoe plants. I had 10,000 tomatoe plants in the ground and you had to turn every leaf everyday or they would eat your plant out in a day. Forget about raking and hoeing the rows to keep the weeds down. It was continous even with the cultivator setup. It was the hardest I ever worked and we had two tractors with the power take off cultivator setup and a manure spreader, a couple of two row and 4 row planters. Every hippy in the county and state that heard about it was coming by to experience the organicness of it and would stay and work and we would feed them and they would sleep under the stars or pitch a tent. The police would stop by everyday and check us out. They couldn't get it out of their head that we weren't growing pot. The place was a picture. I worked everyone to the bone. We had 3 acres of jersey sweet white corn. The best corn you ever ate. Tomatoes, bean, limas, squash, watermellon, cucumbers. We were having a problem with the deer. I tried everything from alarm clocks going off every half hour to cans tied on ropes. Finally I applied for a permit from the state to shoot them and they gave it to me and said kill as many as you have to. I never used it. We would go out a couple or three times everynight and run around the fields naked chasing the deer. Finally they stopped coming.
At times there was at least 30 to 50 people hanging around in a small community type of thing on this farm. I grew 25/30 hogs that year which was successful because once the vegetables started coming in we had so much waste. We had two tent type of markets set up for selling the produce. One at the road front on the farm and another at a gas station of a friends of mine that was right by the main entrance to a retirement village. That one made money but in the end we lost money on the adventure. Made plenty of money on other things so it made up for the farming. I looked at the farming as penance. As hard as it was it was one of the best times I can remember having. And three of those guys are dead now so that's all I have of them. The place has been plowed over and a retirement village sits on it now.

[Tatnic]

In 1972 me and a couple of buddies of mine had the largest organic farming adventure in NJ. I think I may have posted on it in some much earlier post. Liza's farm. An old black lady friend of mine. 106 acres in Whiting, NJ. About 12 acres of cleared land. We farmed every bit of it and it took 30 /40 long haired hippy types to pick the potatoe beatles and horned green worms off the tomatoe plants. I had 10,000 tomatoe plants in the ground and you had to turn every leaf everyday or they would eat your plant out in a day. Forget about raking and hoeing the rows to keep the weeds down. It was continous even with the cultivator setup. It was the hardest I ever worked and we had two tractors with the power take off cultivator setup and a manure spreader, a couple of two row and 4 row planters. Every hippy in the county and state that heard about it was coming by to experience the organicness of it and would stay and work and we would feed them and they would sleep under the stars or pitch a tent. The police would stop by everyday and check us out. They couldn't get it out of their head that we weren't growing pot. The place was a picture. I worked everyone to the bone. We had 3 acres of jersey sweet white corn. The best corn you ever ate. Tomatoes, bean, limas, squash, watermellon, cucumbers. We were having a problem with the deer. I tried everything from alarm clocks going off every half hour to cans tied on ropes. Finally I applied for a permit from the state to shoot them and they gave it to me and said kill as many as you have to. I never used it. We would go out a couple or three times everynight and run around the fields naked chasing the deer. Finally they stopped coming.
At times there was at least 30 to 50 people hanging around in a small community type of thing on this farm. I grew 25/30 hogs that year which was successful because once the vegetables started coming in we had so much waste. We had two tent type of markets set up for selling the produce. One at the road front on the farm and another at a gas station of a friends of mine that was right by the main entrance to a retirement village. That one made money but in the end we lost money on the adventure. Made plenty of money on other things so it made up for the farming. I looked at the farming as penance. As hard as it was it was one of the best times I can remember having. And three of those guys are dead now so that's all I have of them. The place has been plowed over and a retirement village sits on it now.

Sounds like you needed a sniper. An island off the coast of Portland, ME had a terrible deer tick problem (ie lyme disease problem) and since they wouldn't allow hunting they hired a wildlife biologist/sniper to kill off the herd. It was under a hundred deer and he killed them all over bait, except one...too smart to come to the bait.

I also remember reading that a town in NJ tried to do the same thing but couldn't get it approved, and I honestly don't know how it would have worked. At least on an island you've got some buffer from the ocean.

[Tatnic]

Sounds like you needed a sniper. An island off the coast of Portland, ME had a terrible deer tick problem (ie lyme disease problem) and since they wouldn't allow hunting they hired a wildlife biologist/sniper to kill off the herd. It was under a hundred deer and he killed them all over bait, except one...too smart to come to the bait.

I also remember reading that a town in NJ tried to do the same thing but couldn't get it approved, and I honestly don't know how it would have worked. At least on an island you've got some buffer from the ocean.

I should have mentioned to Billie that alot of the organic farmers now a days are dairy farmers and meat farmers. I agree that it sounds pretty hard to grow crops organically, but I wouldn't know. I do know that some organic farmers here in Maine used dead chickens as fertilizer. That strikes me as so damn funny but hey, whatever works.

[Tatnic]

Farmers

When I was in high school, I used to work in the hay fields every summer. I worked for a family who had beef cattle and they leased hundreds of acres of hay fields in addition to the ones they owned. If any of you have ever worked in southwest VA in the summer, 12 hours a day putting up hay you'll know what I went through. I loved it. The people I worked for were the best employees I've ever had, period. They fed us well and always had gallon jugs of cold sweet tea and ice water....I usually went through a couple gallons of water a day and probably a gallon of tea. The farmer's wife made her own bread and made us huge sandwiches with ham and cheese, peanut butter and honey, etc, etc. And they paid minimum wage which at the time was around $2.50/hour. I figured on an average day I handled 25~30 tons of hay. Since I had the longest arms I was delegated to the wagon to load, and then in the barn to stack. Once football season came along, twice-a-day sessions were a vacation compared to what I had just gone through.

I would highly recommend that any highschool football player seek out a farmer who still puts up square bales and sign on for the summer. You'll never get a better workout and enjoy it so much at the same time...but make sure the farmer's wife is right there the whole time keeping the fluids and food coming.

[IIC]

When I was in high school, I used to work in the hay fields every summer. I worked for a family who had beef cattle and they leased hundreds of acres of hay fields in addition to the ones they owned. If any of you have ever worked in southwest VA in the summer, 12 hours a day putting up hay you'll know what I went through. I loved it. The people I worked for were the best employees I've ever had, period. They fed us well and always had gallon jugs of cold sweet tea and ice water....I usually went through a couple gallons of water a day and probably a gallon of tea. The farmer's wife made her own bread and made us huge sandwiches with ham and cheese, peanut butter and honey, etc, etc. And they paid minimum wage which at the time was around $2.50/hour. I figured on an average day I handled 25~30 tons of hay. Since I had the longest arms I was delegated to the wagon to load, and then in the barn to stack. Once football season came along, twice-a-day sessions were a vacation compared to what I had just gone through.

I would highly recommend that any highschool football player seek out a farmer who still puts up square bales and sign on for the summer. You'll never get a better workout and enjoy it so much at the same time...but make sure the farmer's wife is right there the whole time keeping the fluids and food coming.

Heck...I have a hard enough time grocery shopping much less farming

[Rob]

Heck...I have a hard enough time grocery shopping much less farming

LOL ......

[Rob]

My gut tells me that Obama will be the winner [. . .]

Hey, Tatnic, what would you say about George W. Bush if he said what Barack Obama said? Just curious.

Seems that Mr. Obama is not as erudite as we have been led to believe.

If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

[Tatnic]

Hey, Tatnic, what would you say about George W. Bush if he said what Barack Obama said? Just curious.

Seems that Mr. Obama is not as erudite as we have been led to believe.

If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

First of all Rob, you shouldn't believe anything you read on the internet. Did up a real source and I'll comment on it.

I'm guessing you haven't read anything he's said to the black community...he's pretty tough on them and its very refreshing...of course if you or I said what he said we'd be strung up. He's also up against the clintons who give hand outs like its halloween...he's got a tough road to hoe to chide them into doing for themselves and not be so dependent on the government, which is what he's saying to them.

[Rob]

First of all Rob, you shouldn't believe anything you read on the internet. Did up a real source and I'll comment on it.

I guess you mean "dig" up ... ?

Source? Okay, take your pick ... here's a link with 209 of them as of the time of this writing. Or are they all fabrications too?

[IIC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatnic
First of all Rob, you shouldn't believe anything you read on the internet. Did up a real source and I'll comment on it.

I guess you mean "dig" up ... ?

Source? Okay, take your pick ... here's a link with 209 of them as of the time of this writing. Or are they all fabrications too?

Yeah Rob...But those are all on the Internet..So they don't count...Now, if you were to produce the print editions of each... that might be a different story