When Saddam Hangs

[lemonjello]

Unexpected consequences

Mr. Hayes seems to have cause and effect mixed up. I think he's trying to imply something about Al Qaeda funding by Iraq but he has only a little evidence about general terrorist funding. There are plenty of Islamic terrorist groups that existed before Al Qaeda in the middle east and certainly in the Phillipines.

Of course I see no mention of terrorist funding by wealthy people in the rich gulf oil states. This is well known to the intel agencies. Why not invade them?

History note: The USA helped train the original fighters that became Al Qaeda during the USSR Afghan war. Again in a proxy war against the USSR by the US. In an attempt to fend off Russian influence in the middle east the US funded and supported many Islamic extremist groups who were the only convenient and natural US "allies" against the "Godless" USSR in the region.

Here's a link to evidence of Saddam and his boys funding terrorism:

http://www.hillsdale.edu/imprimis/

[mrmarket]

Taking the bible literally

I'm no adulterer, but I have to say that Leviticus 20:10 seems kind of harsh. Do we have to follow the bible literally here? Ouch!

9 If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.
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10 If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
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11 If there is a man who lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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12 If there is a man who lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed incest, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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14 If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.


Hey..what's wrong with having a good time??

[New-born baby]

Proper Interpretation

I'm no adulterer, but I have to say that Leviticus 20:10 seems kind of harsh. Do we have to follow the bible literally here? Ouch!

9 If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 If there is a man who lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 If there is a man who lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed incest, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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14 If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.


Hey..what's wrong with having a good time??

MM,
Since Jesus the Messiah has come, the Old Testament is no longer in force. That was the Law for Jews. The New Testament is the rule for us in this age. And yes, you do need to take the Bible literally since it is the rule by which you'll be judged by God.

[billyjoe]

MM,
Since Jesus the Messiah has come, the Old Testament is no longer in force. That was the Law for Jews. The New Testament is the rule for us in this age. And yes, you do need to take the Bible literally since it is the rule by which you'll be judged by God.

Newborn,
Wasn't the Bible written by men? In fact years later a meeting of men determined which books would be used to compile the Bible and which were too controversial to be included. Several of the rejected texts still exist but are rarely mentioned. Some passages were deemed "inspired " while others from the same writers were apparently not "inspired" and therefore rejected.

-----------billyjoe

[mrmarket]

MM,
Since Jesus the Messiah has come, the Old Testament is no longer in force. That was the Law for Jews. The New Testament is the rule for us in this age. And yes, you do need to take the Bible literally since it is the rule by which you'll be judged by God.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought traffic was lighter last week because everyone had committed adultery and had been put to death. What a silly head I am!

[mrmarket]

Newborn,
Wasn't the Bible written by men? In fact years later a meeting of men determined which books would be used to compile the Bible and which were too controversial to be included. Several of the rejected texts still exist but are rarely mentioned. Some passages were deemed "inspired " while others from the same writers were apparently not "inspired" and therefore rejected.

-----------billyjoe

Yea...and who was the guy that was in charge of translating? What if someone slipped him a few sheckles and he changed the words around??

[New-born baby]

Yea...and who was the guy that was in charge of translating? What if someone slipped him a few sheckles and he changed the words around??

Here's some info for BillyJoe and MM:
2 Peter 1:20-21 "Knowing this first of all [i.e. of foremost importance] that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation; for no prophecy ever came by an act of the human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." From this you can see that God wrote the book. Men penned the words; God moved the men to write what He wanted written.

Preservation: Matthew 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Here Jesus promises that the Bible shall endure perfectly until the earth ceases to exist.

[Websman]

Am I doomed if I'm Catholic???

[IIC]

Am I doomed if I'm Catholic???

I don't know...Ask Father Bruce down at the Boy's Club?

OK...that was not a very nice thing for me to say...And hopefully anyone who is Catholic realizes that I said that in jest.

But I don't think this forum is really an appropriate place to discuss religion. Personally, I am Lutheran although a 1/4 of my family is Catholic...But as far as I am concerned, Cardinal Mahony should be in jail for obstruction of justice...But that's just my opinion.

[Websman]

I don't know...Ask Father Bruce down at the Boy's Club?

OK...that was not a very nice thing for me to say...And hopefully anyone who is Catholic realizes that I said that in jest.

But I don't think this forum is really an appropriate place to discuss religion. Personally, I am Lutheran although a 1/4 of my family is Catholic...But as far as I am concerned, Cardinal Mahony should be in jail for obstruction of justice...But that's just my opinion.

I'm not Catholic....just wondering. But, I do have a lot of friends who are Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, Methodist, Jehova Witness, Buddist, Muslim, etc...

Us Vulcans have their our unique religion, which I'm not authorized to discuss here.

[mrmarket]

Here's some info for BillyJoe and MM:
2 Peter 1:20-21 "Knowing this first of all [i.e. of foremost importance] that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation; for no prophecy ever came by an act of the human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." From this you can see that God wrote the book. Men penned the words; God moved the men to write what He wanted written.

Preservation: Matthew 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Here Jesus promises that the Bible shall endure perfectly until the earth ceases to exist.

I understand...but seriously. Here's my point. If you told a guy he was "gay" a hundred years ago, he'd buy you a drink. How can words from 2000 years ago mean the same thing now?

[lemonjello]

I heard there were quite a few well documented translation errors in the King James version. Are you guys referring to reading the original Greek or Hebrew texts since that's the only way to avoid translation errors. Maybe you need to know Aramaic too.

BTW, Judaism considers there are two sources - the written Torah and the oral traditions which Moses acquired on Mt. Sinai.

And how about the Muslims? The Koran and the Hadith.

[New-born baby]

I understand...but seriously. Here's my point. If you told a guy he was "gay" a hundred years ago, he'd buy you a drink. How can words from 2000 years ago mean the same thing now?

The answer is that when we study the Bible, we study what the words meant then, in the original Greek and Hebrew languages. We also study the context so we can accurately determine the meaning.

[New-born baby]

I heard there were quite a few well documented translation errors in the King James version. Are you guys referring to reading the original Greek or Hebrew texts since that's the only way to avoid translation errors. Maybe you need to know Aramaic too.

BTW, Judaism considers there are two sources - the written Torah and the oral traditions which Moses acquired on Mt. Sinai.

And how about the Muslims? The Koran and the Hadith.

When one translates the Bible, he needs to know Hebrew and Greek, and a small amount of Aramaic and Chaldea. Concerning translation errors, no version is absolutely error free. On the other hand the most popular translations are very good (KJV, NASB, NIV, etc) and the message of God is not lost through the very few poor translations within them.
There are a handful (how many is "a hand full" or "quite a few?") translation errors in the KJV. I would not say "quite a few." By far the biggest issue with the King James Version is what MM is talking about in his post when he mentions that oftentimes the meaning of words changes meaning over times. That has happened to the King James. For example, in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 where the Rapture is under discussion. In the KJV, it reads " . . . that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." Prevent? What does that mean? In 1611 it meant "preceed." You can find that out in the Cambridge College Dictionary. It will tell you what the word meant in 1611. The New American Standard translates the verse " . . . that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not preceed those who have fallen asleep." Notice also that the proper use of "which/who" and "unto/until" has changed.

[New-born baby]

I heard there were quite a few well documented translation errors in the King James version. Are you guys referring to reading the original Greek or Hebrew texts since that's the only way to avoid translation errors. Maybe you need to know Aramaic too.

BTW, Judaism considers there are two sources - the written Torah and the oral traditions which Moses acquired on Mt. Sinai.

And how about the Muslims? The Koran and the Hadith.

Concerning the Jews accepting the oral traditions as authoritive, Jesus condemned that in Matthew 15:1-9.