More Troops???!!

[lemonjello]

Lets recap -

We now have two ideologues facing off in the Persian Gulf - Bush and Ahmadinejad. Both appear to believe they are divine instruments to bring the second coming of their respective religious figures.

Assume Iran probably has many supersonic anti-ship missile installations lining the hills along the Eastern coast of the Gulf. Assume the US has no effective defense against these supersonic weapons used against ships - there is no Patriot-like system that can protect either a carrier group or an oil tanker.

Bush has now ordered two carrier battle groups into the Persian Gulf - which is already filled with the some of biggest ships in the world - oil tankers - and has taken action against an Iranian consulate in Iraq. There are indications of two more carrier groups being prepped for movement into the Gulf area. Admiral Fallon - an expert in projection of maritime based air power - is now taking charge of CENTCOM from General Abizaid.

The US has previously staged pretense attacks on its own ships to win the support of the citizenry for war - see Gulf of Tonkin or the USS Maine incidents.

It's very likely US special forces have been operating in Iran for six months.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4180087.stm

[ParkTwain]

lemonjello wrote:

Assume Iran probably has many supersonic anti-ship missile installations lining the hills along the Eastern coast of the Gulf. Assume the US has no effective defense against these supersonic weapons used against ships - there is no Patriot-like system that can protect either a carrier group or an oil tanker.


What's the big deal? These batteries will be taken out by air attacks. Afterward the ships can move in.

[Runner]

I think what we will see at first is just a show of force. We will probably run some training missions and move into heavier air support for Iraq and fly the borders with a slew of sorties. If we drawl fire from Iran’s air defenses we will avoid initial response.
Then our awesome news media will have something new to report. We’ll let the people hear the news of our sorties being fired on. Then we warn Iran to back off. If this fails we will engage with decisive power..

[lemonjello]

The ships are already there like ducks in a pond. They can't necessarily take out all the missile sites until they fire - even if you assume they wanted to.

Think about how would a pretext attack would take place.

lemonjello wrote:

Assume Iran probably has many supersonic anti-ship missile installations lining the hills along the Eastern coast of the Gulf. Assume the US has no effective defense against these supersonic weapons used against ships - there is no Patriot-like system that can protect either a carrier group or an oil tanker.


What's the big deal? These batteries will be taken out by air attacks. Afterward the ships can move in.

[lemonjello]

You could be right. They were running naval war games in the Gulf late last year. A sinking ship would be much more dramatic on CNN.

Hopefully this is all speculation and the US isn't trying to start WWIII. There's no way the US can invade Iran and no one else is going to help except you know who. This could escalate on the ground across the Gulf into Saudi. OBL must be laughing in his cave. This is exactly what he wanted.

I think what we will see at first is just a show of force. We will probably run some training missions and move into heavier air support for Iraq and fly the borders with a slew of sorties. If we drawl fire from Iran’s air defenses we will avoid initial response.
Then our awesome news media will have something new to report. We’ll let the people hear the news of our sorties being fired on. Then we warn Iran to back off. If this fails we will engage with decisive power..

[Runner]

You get a different twist from different news sources. Notice the article on the 3,000 centrifuges..

http://tehranglobe.com/

Syria increasing military

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1249

[Tatnic]

Park, You gotta get some sleep dude.... The satisfaction you derive from defending the theory of evolution, and trashing middle east politics really ain't worth your health....

Evolution...another commie theory. Just take a look at any porn site and tell me those girls aren't created by some deity!

[Runner]

Russia has completed deliveries of Tor-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems to Iran, the Defense Minister said Tuesday.

"We have supplied modern anti-aircraft short-range missile systems under a contract. Iran is not under any sanctions", Sergei Ivanov said, adding that Moscow will continue to develop military and technical cooperation with Tehran.

Russia undertook to supply 29 Tor-M1 missiles to Iran under a USD 700 million contract signed at the end of 2005. The United States protested the deal, which it feared could bolster the military capabilities of the Islamic Republic, classified by Washington as a "Rogue state" and part of "The axis of evil".

[lemonjello]

W has an Iron Curtain call

Looks like the W administration has somehow managed to bring back the cold war and proxy wars with Russia - good job. Next thing you know the US will be having a "troop surge" at the Fulda Gap.

Has anyone noticed that this administration has managed to drive China and Russia back together as well? Not sure how that was even possible since Condi's a Russia "expert" and all. And W even "looked into" Putin's eyes and everything.

Scary to know the US still has two more years of this assuming they don't decide they have to stay in office for our own protection.

Still looking for OBL and those pesky WMD? "Nope, they're not over here".

Russia has completed deliveries of Tor-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems to Iran, the Defense Minister said Tuesday.

"We have supplied modern anti-aircraft short-range missile systems under a contract. Iran is not under any sanctions", Sergei Ivanov said, adding that Moscow will continue to develop military and technical cooperation with Tehran.

Russia undertook to supply 29 Tor-M1 missiles to Iran under a USD 700 million contract signed at the end of 2005. The United States protested the deal, which it feared could bolster the military capabilities of the Islamic Republic, classified by Washington as a "Rogue state" and part of "The axis of evil".

[studentofthemarket]

We now have two ideologues facing off in the Persian Gulf - Bush and Ahmadinejad. Both appear to believe they are divine instruments to bring the second coming of their respective religious figures.

Assume Iran probably has many supersonic anti-ship missile installations lining the hills along the Eastern coast of the Gulf. Assume the US has no effective defense against these supersonic weapons used against ships - there is no Patriot-like system that can protect either a carrier group or an oil tanker.

Bush has now ordered two carrier battle groups into the Persian Gulf - which is already filled with the some of biggest ships in the world - oil tankers - and has taken action against an Iranian consulate in Iraq. There are indications of two more carrier groups being prepped for movement into the Gulf area. Admiral Fallon - an expert in projection of maritime based air power - is now taking charge of CENTCOM from General Abizaid.

The US has previously staged pretense attacks on its own ships to win the support of the citizenry for war - see Gulf of Tonkin or the USS Maine incidents.

It's very likely US special forces have been operating in Iran for six months.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4180087.stm

Your statements regarding George Bush are patently absurd and downright silly. He's never said any such thing, or even implied such. Furthermore, Christianity isn't rooting for a catastrophe to have our Savior return. The Muslims want that. Furthermroe, Ahmadinejad is the guy that wants to bring his buddy back out of the well. AND he's said as much on many many occasions.

student

[lemonjello]

The Decider

George W. Bush: "I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. Now watch this drive."
--August 4, 2002, on violence in the Middle East... and his golf game
----------
George W. Bush: What an impressive crowd: the haves, and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite, I call you my base.
----------
George W. Bush: [Regarding the capture of Osama bin Laden] I just don't spend that much time on it, to be honest.
---------
[on Saddam Hussein]
George W. Bush: After all, this is a guy who tried to kill my dad at one time.
---------
George W. Bush: "I'm the Commander, see ... I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President ... [I] don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."
--Speaking to the National Security Council
----------
George W. Bush: "I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for predecessors as well." - Jan. 29, 2001
-----------
George W. Bush: "I do know I'm ready for the job. And, if not, that's just the way it goes." - Aug. 21, 2000
------------
George W. Bush: “Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job,” (Hurricane Katrina)
------------
George W. Bush: "I'm the decider"
------------
George W. Bush: “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
------------
Britney Spears: I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that.

[mrmarket]

I think this is a feeble attempt by Bush to somehow preserve his presidential legacy. He was faced with 3 options:

1. Stay the course. No win situation and history marks him down as one of the worst presidents ever with his colossal blunder in Iraq.

2. Withdraw. No win situation and history marks him down as one of the worst presidents ever with his colossal blunder in Iraq.

3. Add 20,000 troops. Improves the chances of winning the peace in Iraq by about 1%, probably escalates killing of civilians and troops. But hey, there is a small chance he won't go down as the worst president ever, so these additional deaths are probably worth it.

I guess he is choosing option 3.

[Peter Hansen]

General Black Jack Pershing Where Are You?

Just before world War 1, there was a number of terrorists attacks on the US forces in the Phillippines by MUSLIM terrorists (Who Else). General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring in 2 pigs and slaughter them in front of the horrified terorists. Muslims detest pigs and believe that if they touch or eat them they will instantly be barred from paradise and any virgins. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a hole ,dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails etc. They let the 50th man go . And for the next 40 years their was not a single Muslim extremist attack in the world. maybe it is time for this segment of History to repeat itself..maybe in Iraq. The question is .....where do we find another Black Jack Pershing ?

[Tatnic]

question is .....where do we find another Black Jack Pershing ?

Another arm chair warrior....a republican no doubt. Isn't it interesting that the entire bush administration and most of his base is comprised of draft dodging, arm-chair warriors? Oh, but they had better things to do than to fight in Nam...but didn't they do some good killing on the Kent State Campus...that took real guts to go up against those girls and boys!

[ParkTwain]

lemonjello wrote:

The US has previously staged pretense attacks on its own ships to win the support of the citizenry for war - see Gulf of Tonkin or the USS Maine incidents.



You didn't mention the Mexican War. It started with a pretext attack, but not on a ship.