Religion and science

[Karel]

By "solid scientific facts" do you mean Darwin's theory of evolution? I think the theory is not "solid" at all. It's full of holes. [...]

Over 700 scientists called Steve disagree with you

Regards,

Karel

[Lyehopper]

Over 700 scientists called Steve disagree with you

Regards,

Karel

I personally have not been convinced by any of them that man evolved from a lower life form. The fossil record just ain't there Karel. This group has an agenda and it's clearly stated on the website.

Please excuse me for using common sense, but how can something as complex as life in general, reproduction, the human brain, the human eye, our solar system.... a bumble bee. Just happen by accident? I think these things were designed and created. Why is that so hard to fathom?

Karel, do you think the account I mentioned at John chapter 11 really happened?

[Karel]

I personally have not been convinced by any of them that man evolved from a lower life form. The fossil record just ain't there Karel. This group has an agenda and it's clearly stated on the website.

Please excuse me for using common sense, but how can something as complex as life in general, reproduction, the human brain, the human eye, our solar system.... a bumble bee. Just happen by accident? I think these things were designed and created. Why is that so hard to fathom?

Karel, do you think the account I mentioned at John chapter 11 really happened?

Well, at least the agenda is in plain view. I see no problems with the agenda.

And about common sense: it just doesn't always point in the right direction. That is why scientists prefer facts and theories over common sense.

Regards,

Karel

[Lyehopper]

Well, at least the agenda is in plain view. I see no problems with the agenda.

And about common sense: it just doesn't always point in the right direction. That is why scientists prefer facts and theories over common sense.

Regards,

Karel

So do you think Jesus resurrected a rotten, stinking corpse back to life or not?

[Karel]

So do you think Jesus resurrected a rotten, stinking corpse back to life or not?

Yes, I suspected that you asked that question to settle the other points. Unfortunately, you confirmed it. I believe very strongly that to use the Lazarus story as a means to settle questions of fact is profoundly disrespectful towards the Bible and its message.

Regards,

Karel

[Lyehopper]

Yes, I suspected that you asked that question to settle the other points. Unfortunately, you confirmed it. I believe very strongly that to use the Lazarus story as a means to settle questions of fact is profoundly disrespectful towards the Bible and its message.

Regards,

Karel

Profoundly disrespectful?.... No, I asked the question to see if you'd tell me the truth of how you feel in your heart.

What is the "Bible's message", it's overall theme anyway?

[Karel]

Profoundly disrespectful?.... No, I asked the question to see if you'd tell me the truth of how you feel in your heart.

What is the "Bible's message", it's overall theme anyway?

Lye, with all respect, but if you want to invite me to share the truth in my heart, you could pick a less confrontational manner. And what do you hope or fear in your heart as the answer that I would give? And what surety can you give me that you would try to understand my answer, as you should, when you ask me to share. You are asking for my heart, as you say. Are you ready to receive it?

The message of the Bible can be summarized in various ways, but let me give you John 3:16.

Regards,

Karel

[Lyehopper]

Lye, with all respect, but if you want to invite me to share the truth in my heart, you could pick a less confrontational manner. And what do you hope or fear in your heart as the answer that I would give? And what surety can you give me that you would try to understand my answer, as you should, when you ask me to share. You are asking for my heart, as you say. Are you ready to receive it?

The message of the Bible can be summarized in various ways, but let me give you John 3:16.

Regards,

Karel

Confrontational? ME?.... sheesh!.... Why do I irritate you so with my simplistic questions?.... You've never played chess have you?

[Karel]

Confrontational? ME?.... sheesh!.... Why do I irritate you so with my simplistic questions?.... You've never played chess have you?

Then I am glad I didn't answer. I am not playing chess.

Regards,

Karel

[Lyehopper]

Then I am glad I didn't answer. I am not playing chess.

Regards,

Karel

You did not answer?.... Oh sorry, I thought you did answer.... Maybe I read your post wrong. Did you not say "yes" you believed that Jesus resurrected a man that was dead for four days and was a stinking rotten corpse back to life?.... I swear I read that post right, you said "yes" to my question....

[mrmarket]

I can confirm that Saddam has indeed not risen from the dead. Whew! I thought we were getting off topic for a second.

[jiesen]

I can confirm that Saddam has indeed not risen from the dead. Whew! I thought we were getting off topic for a second.

Nope, but two of his buddies may yet have a chance of getting off the 'hook' ... so to speak.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070108/ts_afp/iraqjusticeexecution_070108120436

[skiracer]

By "solid scientific facts" do you mean Darwin's theory of evolution? I think the theory is not "solid" at all. It's full of holes. I have no problem with science agreeing with the Bible as I think the Bible agrees with science. Mind you, It does not agree with all scientific theory (as a theory is not proven science) but with proven science in general. For example; Long ago as men were freaking out that they might sail off the end of a flat earth.... the Bible had already stated that the earth was round, centuries before "science" agreed with it (Isaiah 40: 22)....

I believe that the universe is so complex and precise that it had to have an intelligent, powerful and loving designer and creator and that humans are stuck on this planet for a purpose that's larger than they are.... AND I think the Bible contains the answers to all of humankind's problems.

I had said that there are people whose faith transends everything else. They believe in God and the Bible or scriptures as it is written. I think that is fine for them and I will not criticise them for what they have faith or believe in. I Believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible as written. But then there are are areas like Darwins Theory of Evolution that do make sense to me and are somewhat contradictory with the writings in the Bible. The topic of Noah and the flood vs scientific accounts of areas of the planet being under water at one time or another and desert at others. The fact that mountain ranges existed in one place at one time and now those regions are flat plains can be explained by scientific evidence of some nature. Your example of Lazarus or other dead people being brought back to life, by Jesus, after decomposition and being dead for some time has to be a matter of great faith to believe and accept as true. BelievingJesus rose from his tomb and being seen again after death has to be a result of strong unwavoring faith. I believe that he did on the word as written in the Bible. But when scientists can prove that the earth and some fossils are hundreds of thousands or millions of years old thru carbon dating doesn't that disagree with what is written in the Bible.
I am not claiming to be an authority on any of this but just participating in a discussion that I find interesting. I also am not looking to instigate an arguement or to prove anyone wrong in their positions or beliefs but just to listen to what anyone that wants to participate has to say to maybe absorb some new thoughts on the subject while presenting what I think. The only wrong point would not being able to illustrate what you think or feel in a friendly fashion amongst ourselves.

[Rob]

Over 700 scientists called Steve disagree with you

When I read that I could not help but reflect on Jesus' expression when he publicly raised his voice to his God and said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure." (John 11:25, 26, NIV) And I reflected on the attitude of superiority displayed by the learned and proud chief priests and Pharisees, who, when the officers they sent to arrest Jesus came back empty-handed because of his impressive teaching, said to them: "Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees [we, the educated ones] believed on him? But this people who knoweth not the law [these foolish simpletons] are cursed."—John 7:47-49

The fact is, science cannot explain the origin of life. All it can do is hypothesize about some string of random occurrences that have such an incredibly remote chance of ever happening that it is mathematically impossible—and that's just for the correct combination of amino acids to find each other, let alone forming any proteins or cells and somehow springing to life. Incidentally, this is something science cannot even accomplish by design within the most controlled environment it can create.

Life itself is a miracle of God and (to me) the single, most-convincing piece of evidence of the Creator's activity. But science has no room for miracles, because if an event has a scientific explanation, it is therefore not a miracle. Science thus paints itself into a corner, groping for the explanation that does not exist. But so unwilling is the humanist, scientist mindset to admit the existence of God, its adherents do not let this stop them from promoting their impossibly far-fetched hypotheses as "plausible" explanations for the origin of life.

Don't get me wrong. I love science too, in its place. But just as you are concerned about underestimating the humanity of the Bible, I fear that many fall into the trap of underestimating the humanity, and thus the fallibility, of science.

I keep trying to leave this subject alone, but when something like the above piques my attention, I just can't keep my mouth shut.

[mrmarket]

Do we have a Bible for Mars? What if they find life there? Sounds like there is a good chance it exists.