Cheap Shots at Global Warming

[Karel]

Interesting videos....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdRaxN5jUZE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etruveo%2Ecom%2FAl%2DGore%2Dsued%2Dfor%2Dfraud%2Fid%2F3574421821&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft8LfE7AI2w

They can have television shows, Youtube shows and ask for debates as much as they want, but they will need to do the science first before anyone will take them seriously. They can hope, like Lord Monckton, that somebody will give them a free ride, but that is not a very realistic expectation.

And why do Global Warming deniers (and Evolution deniers) want to debate so much? But because debates can very well be won on different points than content, which they haven't. They can sway emotions and use all rhetorical tricks of the trade, even if they can't make a valid scientific point. If they had a valid scientific point, they could make it in scientific journals and at conferences. It is true, they get no chance to publish or participate there, but that is *because* they have no content to contribute. And they know it. They don't even try to make a scientific argument.

If Coleman had a scientific argument, I would be pleased if you posted it here. This Global Warming denialism isn't so interesting that I will spend my time watching Youtube videos promoting it. Text is no problem and will be here for all to see. I mean, I don't have this gut feeling that anthropogenic Global Warming is a hoax, so I cannot accept what these people say without any scientific argument. I hope that you, as a Vulcan, are able to see my problem.

Regards,

Karel

[skiracer]

i have to agree that our planet is going thru a warming period. what is the major cause and reason why can probably be pinned on a number of tangible effects that are happening during our lifetimes. to say that the effects from burning of fossil fuels, automobile emissions, and a large number of hydrocarbons being released into our atmosphere on a regular basis doesnt play a significant part isnt being realistic. we are doing things to our planet that never were introduced before we arrived and and invented them. we have changed so much from what it was originally that the natural balance of things that can and do effect our climate has to have changed the natural workings of the planet. mankind certainly has added to whatever changes are going on but i think there is alot more to it than just blaming it on our lifestyles and inventions and to what degree we use them.

[Peter Hansen]

Give It UP For Lord Monckton

Well they would not let him speak in WASHINGTON......but may I present Mike Savage .....who lets MONCKTON speak!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJS2OjZOCIM

[Karel]

Well they would not let him speak in WASHINGTON......but may I present Mike Savage .....who lets MONCKTON speak!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJS2OjZOCIM

This whole thread got the title "Global Warming : A Physicists Viewpoint!", but has mostly been filled with content-free or arguably misleading propaganda pieces from the anti crowd, and reasoned attempts to criticize those by people who do not think global warming is a hoax. What another hoax propaganda piece in execrable style is supposed to add to the discussion is hard to see. Perhaps we are to take away the impression that global warming deniers are less interested in discussion than in Youtube videos where Al Gore is depicted with a Pinocchio nose.

Pete, I extend my invitation to Webs to you: if you think that Lord Monckton makes an argument that has merit, present it here for all to read and argue, without having to view a (10 minute!) video first. I hope that you, as an independent thinker, see the need for presenting and defending an argument.

Regards,

Karel

[Peter Hansen]

Karel Bottom line

They can have television shows, Youtube shows and ask for debates as much as they want, but they will need to do the science first before anyone will take them seriously. They can hope, like Lord Monckton, that somebody will give them a free ride, but that is not a very realistic expectation.

And why do Global Warming deniers (and Evolution deniers) want to debate so much? But because debates can very well be won on different points than content, which they haven't. They can sway emotions and use all rhetorical tricks of the trade, even if they can't make a valid scientific point. If they had a valid scientific point, they could make it in scientific journals and at conferences. It is true, they get no chance to publish or participate there, but that is *because* they have no content to contribute. And they know it. They don't even try to make a scientific argument.

If Coleman had a scientific argument, I would be pleased if you posted it here. This Global Warming denialism isn't so interesting that I will spend my time watching Youtube videos promoting it. Text is no problem and will be here for all to see. I mean, I don't have this gut feeling that anthropogenic Global Warming is a hoax, so I cannot accept what these people say without any scientific argument. I hope that you, as a Vulcan, are able to see my problem.

Regards,

Karel

Karel It would have been nice for Al Gore to Debate Lord Monckton, then we could have both sides of the arument presented . What is Al Gore afraid of? It has been said , "That One Who Is afraid To Be Judged .......has something to hide" Let the public hear both sides ........and they will be the best JUDGE!

[Karel]

Karel It would have been nice for Al Gore to Debate Lord Monckton, then we could have both sides of the arument presented . What is Al Gore afraid of? It has been said , "That One Who Is afraid To Be Judged .......has something to hide" Let the public hear both sides ........and they will be the best JUDGE!

Why would the public be the best judge? I don't know very much about global warming. You don't know a thing about global warming yourself. A very large part of the public does not. That is not a problem, but why does that make the public "the best judge"? Impartiality is about all they can show (if as much, in this state of the debate), but that is just not enough. What is wrong with expert opinion?

The very insistence on public debate shows the scientific weakness of global warming deniers. It is all they can hope for to sway the public, as they don't have the arguments that would convince the experts.

Regards,

Karel

[Karel]

Well they would not let him speak in WASHINGTON......but may I present Mike Savage .....who lets MONCKTON speak!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJS2OjZOCIM

Yes, let Monckton speak! Monckton published an opinion article in the APS Forum on Physics and Society Newsletter. He then claimed he had published a peer-reviewed article in a leading magazine. Newsletters aren't leading magazines and his article was not peer-reviewed (it was corrected for clarity), and presumably accepted as the start of a discussion. An analysis of the article by Arthur Smith turned up an amazing number of errors and irrelevancies. (Some people suspect that this was the secret agenda behind the acceptance of the article: to show its utter bogosity.)

I refer you to A detailed list of the errors in Monckton's July 2008 Physics and Society article

Please explain how all these errors are supposed to inform "the public" and why scientists should consider his arguments.

BTW, it seems that there are exaggerations present in "An Inconvenient Truth". Those should be criticized well and good. But not by introducing something like "corrective falsehoods" by the "other side". That is not the way science is done.

You can bottom-line all you want, but as long as you place yourself squarely behind incompetents and snake-oil salesmen, I am going to call you on it, just to show how gullible you and global warming deniers in general are. I am afraid your only recourse is education in the subject (which until now you have fanatically avoided).

Regards,

Karel

[Websman]

Why would the public be the best judge? I don't know very much about global warming. You don't know a thing about global warming yourself. A very large part of the public does not. That is not a problem, but why does that make the public "the best judge"? Impartiality is about all they can show (if as much, in this state of the debate), but that is just not enough. What is wrong with expert opinion?

The very insistence on public debate shows the scientific weakness of global warming deniers. It is all they can hope for to sway the public, as they don't have the arguments that would convince the experts.

Regards,

Karel

Regardless, Karel...The VTP Inner Circle respects your amazing market skills! Jejejejeeeee......

[Peter Hansen]

Global Warming Big Hoax?

The Washington Times seems to indicate data was fudged and hidden by the global change hucksters....and the whole Global Warming appears to be huge Hoax.......JUST AS I HAD THOUGHT!
Get out the fur coats Global Cooling Is On Its way LOL .....SELL ALL YOUR GREEN STOCKS !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/24/hiding-evidence-of-global-cooling/

[Websman]

The Washington Times seems to indicate data was fudged and hidden by the global change hucksters....and the whole Global Warming appears to be huge Hoax.......JUST AS I HAD THOUGHT!
Get out the fur coats Global Cooling Is On Its way LOL .....SELL ALL YOUR GREEN STOCKS !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...lobal-cooling/

RUBBISH! AL GORE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS NONSENSE! GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL!!! I WILL IGNORE ANY EVIDENCE THAT INDICATES OTHERWISE! OBAMA ROCKS!!! GIVE ME MY FREE HEALTH CARE!!! BAIL ME OUT OF MY BAD MORTGAGE!!! LET'S GET CAP AND TRADE GOING NOW!!! RAISE MY POWER BILL AND TAXES........huh??? Raise my what??? My power bill's going up??? You mean....you mean....You're going to raise my taxes to pay for my free health care???? So....Obama doesn't really rock????

My God!!! Glenn Beck WAS right!!!

[Karel]

The Washington Times seems to indicate data was fudged and hidden by the global change hucksters....and the whole Global Warming appears to be huge Hoax.......JUST AS I HAD THOUGHT!
Get out the fur coats Global Cooling Is On Its way LOL .....SELL ALL YOUR GREEN STOCKS !

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...lobal-cooling/

From the linked article:

Among his e-mails, Mr. Jones talked to Mr. Mann about the "trick of adding in the real temps to each series ... to hide the decline [in temperature]."

Mr. Mann admitted that he was party to this conversation and lamely explained to the New York Times that "scientists often used the word 'trick' to refer to a good way to solve a problem 'and not something secret.' " Though the liberal New York newspaper apparently buys this explanation, we have seen no benign explanation that justifies efforts by researchers to skew data on so-called global-warming "to hide the decline."

That sounds serious. Let us see how gullible the NYT is. The article is here. The relevant quote is:

In a 1999 e-mail exchange about charts showing climate patterns over the last two millenniums, Phil Jones, a longtime climate researcher at the East Anglia Climate Research Unit, said he had used a “trick” employed by another scientist, Michael Mann, to “hide the decline” in temperatures.

Dr. Mann, a professor at Pennsylvania State University, confirmed in an interview that the e-mail message was real. He said the choice of words by his colleague was poor but noted that scientists often used the word “trick” to refer to a good way to solve a problem, “and not something secret.”

At issue were sets of data, both employed in two studies. One data set showed long-term temperature effects on tree rings; the other, thermometer readings for the past 100 years.

Through the last century, tree rings and thermometers show a consistent rise in temperature until 1960, when some tree rings, for unknown reasons, no longer show that rise, while the thermometers continue to do so until the present.

Dr. Mann explained that the reliability of the tree-ring data was called into question, so they were no longer used to track temperature fluctuations. But he said dropping the use of the tree rings was never something that was hidden, and had been in the scientific literature for more than a decade. “It sounds incriminating, but when you look at what you’re talking about, there’s nothing there,” Dr. Mann said.

In addition, other independent but indirect measurements of temperature fluctuations in the studies broadly agreed with the thermometer data showing rising temperatures.

It appears that there is a good reason to pass this trick, unless someone can come up with a good reason why tree ring data should not be ignored, preferably with an explanation why tree rings are better indicators for temperature than thermometers.

But it is good propaganda stuff for global warming deniers, anyway, as for most people hunches are enough ("JUST AS I HAD THOUGHT") and facts irrelevant.

Regards,

Karel

[Odysseus]

RUBBISH! AL GORE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS NONSENSE! GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL!!! I WILL IGNORE ANY EVIDENCE THAT INDICATES OTHERWISE! OBAMA ROCKS!!! GIVE ME MY FREE HEALTH CARE!!! BAIL ME OUT OF MY BAD MORTGAGE!!! LET'S GET CAP AND TRADE GOING NOW!!! RAISE MY POWER BILL AND TAXES........huh??? Raise my what??? My power bill's going up??? You mean....you mean....You're going to raise my taxes to pay for my free health care???? So....Obama doesn't really rock????

My God!!! Glenn Beck WAS right!!!

lol

However, despite all the bad press, it doesn't change this:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=4594

Or this: http://www.geostrategis.com/p_mapm2.html

Or: http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
"October 2009 had the second-lowest ice extent for the month over the 1979 to 2009 period. "

[Websman]

lol

However, despite all the bad press, it doesn't change this:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=4594

Or this: http://www.geostrategis.com/p_mapm2.html

Or: http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
"October 2009 had the second-lowest ice extent for the month over the 1979 to 2009 period. "

THE SKY IS FALLING....THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! jejeje!!!!!

[Peter Hansen]

Webs

THE SKY IS FALLING....THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! jejeje!!!!!

Web ........Great sense of humor! LOL

[Websman]

Web ........Great sense of humor! LOL

You wanna seee something really funny....Just watch Al Gore. The guy is a riot! LMFAO!!!!