Rob's Lobs

Lyehopper sez:

"left-wing/anti-gun pinko Commies (kinda like you and Park)"


As if lauding the lowest common denominator elements in American life makes one "a good American." You have a lot of nerve, Lye. What the f*** have you done for the good of the Republic today, besides look out for yourself with gun in hand?

Rob sez:

"I'm glad a lot of people own guns, because the fact that criminals and potential criminals don't know which ones tends to keep them at bay."


What evidence do you have for this? What might seem to be common sense might not be borne out by the facts.

Well...I did look it up...And I suggest you check your facts before you go off stating MIS-FACTS:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

http://www.jrsa.org/programs/Historical.pdf

The 1960's were nowhere near a peak per 100,000...Of course, you may think the FBI just makes this stuff up. Although who knows???...Maybe they do...Just like the politicians who keep saying that your neighborhood is safer.

Demographics and poverty are the drivers.

[Lyehopper]

I'll weigh in on this one. I don't own a firearm and have never felt unsafe without one.

Being HUGE is "relative".... Never felt unsafe? I hope you never encounter a situation that makes you feel differently Ernie.... Sadly, the reality of this world says you might.

[mrmarket]

I'll weigh in on this one. I don't own a firearm and have never felt unsafe without one. I am not opposed to anyone owning one who wants to own one, if it makes them feel safer.

Obviously if we relaxed our gun laws, more people would have guns and more people would be killed accidentally or murdered. Only an idiot would refute that.

Yes there would be more people who don't die as the result of fending off an attacker, but I am pretty sure the number of killings in the former paragrah would outweigh the latter.

With regard to Virginia Tech...the situation is not unlike what happened on the Long Island Commuter train where a lone gunman systematically killed several people who were trying their best, in an enclosed area, to "hide" from the gunman. I think it is the human instinct, when submerged with fear, to "freeze" from predators. Same thing happened on 3 of the 4 September 11 planes.

The best way to minimize the carnage in these events is for some brave soul to attack the attacker. It is likely then that other people will "monkey see, monkey do" and assist in thwarting the attack. Of course this is easier said than done, but if one of those kids had jumped that gunman, the death toll yesterday would have been 5 or 6, not 32.

[Lyehopper]

LOL...you and rob are obviously upset but why so surprised? I'm surprised this doesn't happen on a more regular basis....its been what, a couple of years since those little quaker girls were slaughtered by that nut job. He most likely was not a nut job when he bought that handgun.

And lets pretend that everyone carried a weapon....kids, women, people with low iq's, like yourself. Would you feel safer? There are times when I'm carrying my .300 win mag in the woods and I see other hunters who are so obviously retarded that I wonder how they managed to get dressed and load their weapons. I don't feel safe hunting around them...and I doubt that you would either.

Frankly, I'm not one BIT surprised about what happened at Tech.... Who said we were "surprised?" I'm actually surprised that the islamo terrorists haven't thought about doing this (in this country) long ago....

Who said we thought "everyone" should be armed? There are some very strict requirements in VA for one to be allowed to concealed/carry a firearm.... Do you think a citizen should even be allowed to qualify and obtain a permit to carry a concealed firearm?

And why do you assume that Rob and myself have low IQ's? Because we think it would have been a GOOD thing if some responsible citizen (armed with a concealed firearm) had encountered this criminal and killed him early on before he killed 32 innocent people? How can you, as a thinking, reasoning man, argue with that?!!!!

btw, WHAT are you hunting with a 300 win mag? and WHY are you hunting "around" other people?.... Seems to me like a super smart, highly educated, high-IQ fella like yourself could figure out how to work a little harder and afford to purchase yourself several hundred acres of land somewhere so you can hunt in peace.

[Rob]

Personal Reflections

Some personal reflections:

I was just thinking about the time I spent working at the Owens Dining Hall at Virginia Tech. I looked up some information and discovered that "the Hokie Grill" located there reopened in Aug. 1997 after being renovated. I'm sure that is the time I was there. If you go to this link and look around the inside of the room, you can see the salad bar I installed that was built by the shop I worked at at the time. We actually did quite a lot of work in there that you can't see--all the countertops, all the cabinetry behind the counters and at the checkouts, butcher blocks in the kitchen, decorative trash can enclosures, trim mouldings, etc.

I liked working at that place because it's so attractive, so beautiful, and (ironically so today) so peaceful. Also I happen to know that my grandmother's first cousin, who was a stone mason extraordinaire, was a foreman on the crew that built some of the many stone exteriors of the buildings on that campus.

No Tatnic, your formerly living in Blacksburg doesn't mean a damned thing.... You see, in the Commonwealth of VA you are required by law to have "training" before you can acquire a concealed/carry permit..... Sooooo if someone who came in contact with this asshole today WAS indeed legally carrying a concealed firearm? They WOULD have stood a damned good chance of fighting back and leaving HIS brains splattered all over the blackboard, thus potentially saving many lives.

Real problem is Tatnic; most of "your average joe" students (and faculty) on college campus' today are a bunch of left-wing/anti-gun pinko Commies (kinda like you and Park)

LOL...you and rob are obviously upset but why so surprised? I'm surprised this doesn't happen on a more regular basis....its been what, a couple of years since those little quaker girls were slaughtered by that nut job. He most likely was not a nut job when he bought that handgun.

And lets pretend that everyone carried a weapon....kids, women, people with low iq's, like yourself. Would you feel safer? There are times when I'm carrying my .300 win mag in the woods and I see other hunters who are so obviously retarded that I wonder how they managed to get dressed and load their weapons. I don't feel safe hunting around them...and I doubt that you would either.

[Karel]

http://www.collegemedia.com/stories/...m-shapiro.html

http://www.roanoke.com has a guest book for victims. There are entries there from people all over. I've seen at least one entry from the Netherlands.

Thanks Rob, I have posted there.

Regards,

Karel

[skiracer]

No Tatnic, your formerly living in Blacksburg doesn't mean a damned thing.... You see, in the Commonwealth of VA you are required by law to have "training" before you can acquire a concealed/carry permit..... Sooooo if someone who came in contact with this asshole today WAS indeed legally carrying a concealed firearm? They WOULD have stood a damned good chance of fighting back and leaving HIS brains splattered all over the blackboard, thus potentially saving many lives.

Real problem is Tatnic; most of "your average joe" students (and faculty) on college campus' today are a bunch of left-wing/anti-gun pinko Commies (kinda like you and Park) who think they can analyze or negotiate themselves out of harms way. In my opinion, you meet firepower with firepower, plain and simple. And no, I didn't form this opinion from watching too much TV. I just realize how the real world works.

Lye,
Geez, I just realized how much I have missed your personality and posts. You haven't been blessing us with very many of your posts of late. I don't know what the answer is to these type of situations but I do know that if anyone of those kids would have gone after that guy his whole psychological advantage would have evaporated with several of them attacking him at once and his control and self- assurance would have gone out the window. There is a big difference in sitting and picking people off when there is no attack on you or your position. Once people start coming at you from several directions the whole situation changes and psychological composure becomes the most important factor. I've always felt that if I am going to die then I going down fighting rather than as a sitting duck. Those people could have done a number of things like throwing chairs or books or anything to everyone charging the guy. That would have changed the entire scenario. People would still have gotten killed but the numbers would have been greatly reduced. I don't have the answer about everyone carrying a gun but I think they could have acted differently and changed the outcome. Terrible thing to say after the fact but true. I can't believe that no one had this thought in their head to attack him or possibly distract him in a way to give others a chance to attack him. Regardless a horrible situation.

[mimo_100]

Park, I understand what you're saying. But you are approaching the situation from a macro point of view, while my earlier comment was from a micro perspective.

To illustrate my point, here's a multiple choice question:


You are in a classroom with perhaps 20 or 30 other people when a deranged killer enters and starts shooting people one by one. You would prefer ....

A. To have a loaded gun.

B. To be unarmed.

If you answered B, then I would question your ability to comprehend the situation.

You left out choice C.

C. All 20 or 30 people jump the killer and beat his head in.

[Rob]

More Facts

Here are a few more facts:

1. At no time did I ever say one word about anyone being able to carry a gun that is powerful enough to kill 50 people in ten seconds.

2. At no time did I suggest that anyone should be able to carry a firearm without being trained in how to handle it properly.

3. At no time did I offer the opinion the everyone should carry a gun.

I understand the anti-gun arguements. I just don't happen to agree with them. The Constitution of the United States has this little provision called the 2nd Ammendment, which says in part, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Nevermind the fruitless arguements about the "well regulated militia" part of the ammendment; the right shall not be infringed, period.

I merely lamented the fact that these kids, and apparently some older persons as well, were being shot to death one-by-one-by-one, and not one of them had the ability stop this homicidal maniac. I do not own a gun myself, but I live in an area where many of my neighbors do. This fact is not a threat to me. I'm glad a lot of people own guns, because the fact that criminals and potential criminals don't know which ones tends to keep them at bay.

I would like to express my sympathy and offer my prayers. Does anyone know of a place to do that? VT doesn't have anything like that up yet, I hope they find the time to do that soon.

Virginia Tech is having server problems, even before this event. But here is some information in answer to your question:

http://www.collegemedia.com/stories/416-915pm-shapiro.html

http://www.roanoke.com has a guest book for victims. There are entries there from people all over. I've seen at least one entry from the Netherlands.

[Karel]

Park, I understand what you're saying. But you are approaching the situation from a macro point of view, while my earlier comment was from a micro perspective.

To illustrate my point, here's a multiple choice question:

You are in a classroom with perhaps 20 or 30 other people when a deranged killer enters and starts shooting people one by one. You would prefer ....

A. To have a loaded gun.
B. To be unarmed.

If you answered B, then I would question your ability to comprehend the situation.

What about A, but only in that situation?

The problem with the question is, that deranged killers are rather scarce. To have everyone carry a gun for just such a circumstance seems a bit wild to me. I have never carried or even touched a gun, but what ski says makes sense to me. I think that, apart from activities like hunting (which don't appeal much to vegetarian like me), I wouldn't like a place where everyone is carrying a gun, including me, because 1) you have to be constantly aware of the fact that you are carrying a gun; 2) you have to be constantly aware of the fact that everyone else is carrying a gun. We probably would all have to be very polite!

What happened in Blacksburg is a tragedy. I don't think right after a tragedy is a good time for policy discussions.

I would like to express my sympathy and offer my prayers. Does anyone know of a place to do that? VT doesn't have anything like that up yet, I hope they find the time to do that soon.

Regards,

Karel

[IIC]

In fact, crime of most sorts has decreased in the U.S. due primarily to DEMOGRAPHIC factors. There was more crime in the 1960s and 70s due to the relatively larger number of baby-boomer teenagers and under 30-y.o. persons living that time in the society. Look it up.

Well...I did look it up...And I suggest you check your facts before you go off stating MIS-FACTS:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

http://www.jrsa.org/programs/Historical.pdf

The 1960's were nowhere near a peak per 100,000...Of course, you may think the FBI just makes this stuff up. Although who knows???...Maybe they do...Just like the politicians who keep saying that your neighborhood is safer.

[IIC]

I'll pass on this arguement...although I am somewhat of an authority on the subject...


However...on my way home from work I was thinking about the comments and it dawned on me...When I went to college at the Univ. of Nebraska circa early '70's it seemed like almost all the students had guns...At least the guys...I even bot a 22 single shot from some guy for 10 bux.

As I recall, they were mostly rifles/shot guns as most of those guys were big hunters...I only went pheasant hunting once...they never invited me again tho...I think some of my friends were a bit worried that I might accidently shoot them in the blinds...Didn't seem like much fun to me anyway.