When Saddam Hangs

[skiracer]

Concerning the Jews accepting the oral traditions as authoritive, Jesus condemned that in Matthew 15:1-9.

If a dozen people read the book you would have a dozen different interpretations. Every minister's interpretation follows the line of thought of their denomination and they all think that their interpretation is the right one down to the smallest interpretation of basic word usage and definition as pointed out by New Born. I think it would be good enough to base living your life within the parameters of the 10 commandents. If you could do that Jesus and God would be very pleased with your performance here on earth. The sad fact of the matter is that the largest percentage of us can't even do that much less trying to live your life by what is written in the Bible.
Interpretations always tend to bend according to the need and beliefs of the interpreter along with the fact that the scriptures were written by mortal men over 2000 years ago when the wording had much different meaning and definition. Personally I think it is very much outdated but the 10 commandents were written in stone an have not and will not change thru eternity as it was meant to be.

[New-born baby]

Am I doomed if I'm Catholic???

Webs,
Any person is "doomed" (we'd say, "damned" which means, "condemned to hell") regardless of what "religion" he may be. In other words, every person starts out headed to an eternal judgment in hell because he has violated God's law, i.e., sinned. Any sin is enough to condemn a man to eternal judgment. In fact God holds us all responsible for the original sin of Adam because we participated in it (Romans 5:12). So point one is this: everyone is headed to hell from day one.

Point two is that no one may earn salvation from this judgment. No thing that you do will earn merit with God that He would give you eternal life instead of eternal judgment (Ephesians 2:8-9). The reason is simple: God is a righteous judge. He cannot approve of sin. He must judge sin. If He were to give a sinner eternal life without the sin being judged, He would be a corrupt judge, and something He cannot do since He is absolutely holy (Romans 3:21-31).

Point three is that God has provided a way to eternal life. It is the only way possible. What He did was this: He sent His Son to die for our sins as a substitute. The result is this: when a sinner turns to Christ believing that 1) he is a sinner deserving hell for his sins, and 2) that he cannot save himself from his own sins, and 3) that God the Father sent His Son to pay the penalty (the 'fine' if you will) for our sins, and 4) calls upon Christ to save him, he will be saved from eternal punishment and given eternal life instantly.
A few verses that teach this are:
John 3:16f. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish [that's hell] but have everlasting life. (v. 17) For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him would be saved. (v. 1 He that believes upon Him is not condemned; but he that does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Begotten Son of God."

There are many, many other verses that could be quoted. But let me just urge all readers to do this: ask Christ to save you from your sins. Simply call upon Him in prayer and admit the truth: I am a sinner, and I know judgment is coming; I know I cannot save myself. Dear Jesus please save me, a sinner. Jesus said, ". . . he that comes to Me I will not reject." He'll hear you. And He will save you.

Have a great 2007, Webs

[New-born baby]

I heard there were quite a few well documented translation errors in the King James version. Are you guys referring to reading the original Greek or Hebrew texts since that's the only way to avoid translation errors. Maybe you need to know Aramaic too.

BTW, Judaism considers there are two sources - the written Torah and the oral traditions which Moses acquired on Mt. Sinai.

And how about the Muslims? The Koran and the Hadith.

Concerning the Jews accepting the oral traditions as authoritive, Jesus condemned that in Matthew 15:1-9.

[New-born baby]

I heard there were quite a few well documented translation errors in the King James version. Are you guys referring to reading the original Greek or Hebrew texts since that's the only way to avoid translation errors. Maybe you need to know Aramaic too.

BTW, Judaism considers there are two sources - the written Torah and the oral traditions which Moses acquired on Mt. Sinai.

And how about the Muslims? The Koran and the Hadith.

When one translates the Bible, he needs to know Hebrew and Greek, and a small amount of Aramaic and Chaldea. Concerning translation errors, no version is absolutely error free. On the other hand the most popular translations are very good (KJV, NASB, NIV, etc) and the message of God is not lost through the very few poor translations within them.
There are a handful (how many is "a hand full" or "quite a few?") translation errors in the KJV. I would not say "quite a few." By far the biggest issue with the King James Version is what MM is talking about in his post when he mentions that oftentimes the meaning of words changes meaning over times. That has happened to the King James. For example, in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 where the Rapture is under discussion. In the KJV, it reads " . . . that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." Prevent? What does that mean? In 1611 it meant "preceed." You can find that out in the Cambridge College Dictionary. It will tell you what the word meant in 1611. The New American Standard translates the verse " . . . that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not preceed those who have fallen asleep." Notice also that the proper use of "which/who" and "unto/until" has changed.

[New-born baby]

I understand...but seriously. Here's my point. If you told a guy he was "gay" a hundred years ago, he'd buy you a drink. How can words from 2000 years ago mean the same thing now?

The answer is that when we study the Bible, we study what the words meant then, in the original Greek and Hebrew languages. We also study the context so we can accurately determine the meaning.

[lemonjello]

I heard there were quite a few well documented translation errors in the King James version. Are you guys referring to reading the original Greek or Hebrew texts since that's the only way to avoid translation errors. Maybe you need to know Aramaic too.

BTW, Judaism considers there are two sources - the written Torah and the oral traditions which Moses acquired on Mt. Sinai.

And how about the Muslims? The Koran and the Hadith.

[mrmarket]

Here's some info for BillyJoe and MM:
2 Peter 1:20-21 "Knowing this first of all [i.e. of foremost importance] that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation; for no prophecy ever came by an act of the human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." From this you can see that God wrote the book. Men penned the words; God moved the men to write what He wanted written.

Preservation: Matthew 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Here Jesus promises that the Bible shall endure perfectly until the earth ceases to exist.

I understand...but seriously. Here's my point. If you told a guy he was "gay" a hundred years ago, he'd buy you a drink. How can words from 2000 years ago mean the same thing now?

[Websman]

I don't know...Ask Father Bruce down at the Boy's Club?

OK...that was not a very nice thing for me to say...And hopefully anyone who is Catholic realizes that I said that in jest.

But I don't think this forum is really an appropriate place to discuss religion. Personally, I am Lutheran although a 1/4 of my family is Catholic...But as far as I am concerned, Cardinal Mahony should be in jail for obstruction of justice...But that's just my opinion.

I'm not Catholic....just wondering. But, I do have a lot of friends who are Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, Methodist, Jehova Witness, Buddist, Muslim, etc...

Us Vulcans have their our unique religion, which I'm not authorized to discuss here.

[IIC]

Am I doomed if I'm Catholic???

I don't know...Ask Father Bruce down at the Boy's Club?

OK...that was not a very nice thing for me to say...And hopefully anyone who is Catholic realizes that I said that in jest.

But I don't think this forum is really an appropriate place to discuss religion. Personally, I am Lutheran although a 1/4 of my family is Catholic...But as far as I am concerned, Cardinal Mahony should be in jail for obstruction of justice...But that's just my opinion.

[Websman]

Am I doomed if I'm Catholic???

[New-born baby]

Yea...and who was the guy that was in charge of translating? What if someone slipped him a few sheckles and he changed the words around??

Here's some info for BillyJoe and MM:
2 Peter 1:20-21 "Knowing this first of all [i.e. of foremost importance] that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation; for no prophecy ever came by an act of the human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." From this you can see that God wrote the book. Men penned the words; God moved the men to write what He wanted written.

Preservation: Matthew 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Here Jesus promises that the Bible shall endure perfectly until the earth ceases to exist.

[mrmarket]

Newborn,
Wasn't the Bible written by men? In fact years later a meeting of men determined which books would be used to compile the Bible and which were too controversial to be included. Several of the rejected texts still exist but are rarely mentioned. Some passages were deemed "inspired " while others from the same writers were apparently not "inspired" and therefore rejected.

-----------billyjoe

Yea...and who was the guy that was in charge of translating? What if someone slipped him a few sheckles and he changed the words around??

[mrmarket]

MM,
Since Jesus the Messiah has come, the Old Testament is no longer in force. That was the Law for Jews. The New Testament is the rule for us in this age. And yes, you do need to take the Bible literally since it is the rule by which you'll be judged by God.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought traffic was lighter last week because everyone had committed adultery and had been put to death. What a silly head I am!

[billyjoe]

MM,
Since Jesus the Messiah has come, the Old Testament is no longer in force. That was the Law for Jews. The New Testament is the rule for us in this age. And yes, you do need to take the Bible literally since it is the rule by which you'll be judged by God.

Newborn,
Wasn't the Bible written by men? In fact years later a meeting of men determined which books would be used to compile the Bible and which were too controversial to be included. Several of the rejected texts still exist but are rarely mentioned. Some passages were deemed "inspired " while others from the same writers were apparently not "inspired" and therefore rejected.

-----------billyjoe

[New-born baby]

Proper Interpretation

I'm no adulterer, but I have to say that Leviticus 20:10 seems kind of harsh. Do we have to follow the bible literally here? Ouch!

9 If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.
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10 If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
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11 If there is a man who lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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12 If there is a man who lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed incest, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
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14 If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.


Hey..what's wrong with having a good time??

MM,
Since Jesus the Messiah has come, the Old Testament is no longer in force. That was the Law for Jews. The New Testament is the rule for us in this age. And yes, you do need to take the Bible literally since it is the rule by which you'll be judged by God.