OT: Writing in general

[SundialMan]

Kevin Costner's Open Range "documentary"

This story is a section of a published story. It's about a Kevin Costner movie and his trying to copy Ken Burns who made many public television documentary films. I wrote this in 2004. I purposely removed the political aspects of the original piece because, as I said in the first post on this thread, I didn't want to turn this board into a political screed - but you can see my mindset here, favoring teaching US history in schools.

Jack

Recently I rented the two DVD set of Open Range, a 2003 Western with great character development, realism, and storytelling. I am in no way qualified to do a literary criticism of the plot and storyline, but I know that I like when I see it.

The problem came when Mr. Costner decided to include his own PBS-style mini documentary on the second bonus CD disk, narrated by Costner himself. It tells an interesting story about Old West settlers and adventurers, a lady photographer, and included Teddy Roosevelt's days in the West. But when Costner summed up at the end what happened to the prospectors, lady photographer, etc., he said Teddy got "elected President in 1902." I couldn't believe I was hearing this and replayed the piece three times, just to make sure.

For those of you who were listening in high school, we have Presidential elections every four years - and there was a rather talked-about election in 2000, so if you could figure (if you were listening in Third Grade Arithmetic as well) that we had a presidential election in 1900, followed by one in 1904. Apparently Mr. Costner and his professional staff were otherwise preoccupied back in grade school or in 2003-4 when this mini-documentary was being edited.

Mr. Costner's confusion was caused by an event I remember well from high school US History - and a guy who played Jim Garrison, a District Attorney in a presidential assassination movie should have, too: Vice President Teddy Roosevelt became President for the first time in September 1901 as President McKinley succumbed the bullets of an assassin delivered days earlier at the Pan American Exhibition in Buffalo, NY. This error by Costner was almost as stupid as...making Waterworld. No, it was worse, because it attempts to be a history lesson for young and old alike. Anyone quoting Costner's documentary in a high school class will be seen as stupid.

A few years ago, Jay Leno did a piece on the Tonight Show where he showed college students at the Cal. State LA graduation not being able to identify photos of presidents, including the famous profile photo of FDR with the cigarette holder. They said it was "The Penguin" from the Batman TV reruns. Sadly, I didn't make up that last joke up: it was one "student's" guess.

Last summer I was on a 5 day bus trip where the tour guide asked us some US History questions to pass the time on the road. I got a number of them right which lead to the 11 year old grandson of two of passengers befriending me, telling me that they don't teach any real US history in his school and he watches the History Channel all the time because he loves it.

There is a hunger to know about where we came from that will survive this liberal pap that we have been exposed to in the last 20-30 years.

[SundialMan]

A baseball story about Casey Stengel

Since baseball season is gonna start pretty soon, I thought I'd tell you this story. If you don't know who Casey Stengel was - as he used to say - "you can look it up" or read the next paragraph.

Growing up in the 1950s in the Bronx, I was a Yankee fan. When the Yankees fired Casey as their manager after the tough 1960 World Series loss to the Pittsburg Pirates, I never forgave them because Casey was like the surrogate grandfather I never had. Later Casey was hired as the first manager of the NY Mets in 1962.

One day in 1964, when Casey was managing the Mets, they had a day off in July or August and I saw in the newspaper that Casey would be at Gimbels that day signing and giving out a free baseball, along with a few players. For those of you not familiar, Gimbel's was the former rival department store, now gone, that was near Macy's in New York.

So I get to the place, a classroom like meeting room, early. Casey is in front of the desk talking to a sports reporter. I walk in, open my big mouth, and ask, "Casey, what do you think of Walter O'Malley?" The reporter starts to laugh because O'Malley, the Dodger owner who took the team out of Brooklyn and to L.A., is known as one of the most tight fisted, cold characters in pro baseball. And many of the early NY Mets fans were former Dodger fans who felt they had been jilted by the love of their life.

Casey was famous for his stories and my question caused him to get that twinkle in his eye and launch into a tale. Before I go any further, I need to explain that a lot had been written about him in the press, so I knew that he lived in the Los Angeles suburb of Glendale with his wife Edna.

Casey then started to tell about a time the Mets were playing the Los Angeles Dodgers in Chavez Ravine and he drove over there from his home, parking his car in the Dodger Stadium lot. As he was walking out, the attendant stopped him and said, "That will be $2" (that is a 1963 parking price). To this, Casey replied, "What do you mean? I'm the manager of the opposing team. We have a game here today. I don't have to pay." To that, the attendant said, "That's all very good, but Mr. O'Malley said that everyone pays."

So Casey had to pony up the $2 to park his car. No more courtesies like other teams gave on game day from Mr. O'Malley.

Jack

[SundialMan]

Gore's "environmental Holocaust"

I've tried to keep the keep my political arguments here to a minimum, but today I found out that Al Gore's 2000 book "Earth in the Balance," referred to global warming as "an economic holocaust." I take great personal offense at this, and wrote a short piece that I submitted to American Thinker and also post here. This argument has more to do with a critic of the worldview of Green Politics than the platform of anyone likely to be nominated for President on their party's ticket in 2008 or whenever. Here it is:

Baccarat Kristalnacht

I don't read Al Gore's books, only accounts of them claiming the internal combustion engine/car is the greatest enemy of mankind or some such over the top rhetoric. But recent press about Al Gore and his energy usage has brought me into contact with this quote from his book "Earth in the Balance," published in 2000:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/wattenberg041999.asp

'Zelnick cites Gore's book "Earth in the Balance," which claims that global warming "threatens an environmental holocaust... today the evidence of an ecological Kristallnacht is as clear as the sound of glass shattering in Berlin." Gore foresees the outbreak "of a kind of a global civil war" between the ecological "resistance fighters" and the "silent partners of destruction." Gore says opponents are "enablers" of such totalitarianism.

(Unabomber anyone?)'

END OF QUOTE

I am not surprised Al Gore would say this, but I still am still able to be shocked. This is nothing less than co-opting and trivializing the Holocaust for his own political and publicity gains. And a shameless, obscene exploitation. No wonder Hollywood gave him an Oscar. As my title states, the only "kristal" Gore is involved with is the Baccarat crystal from which he and his "ecologically sensitive" friends are drinking vintage champagne, either at his mansion or on his private jet as it spreads its carbon footprint across the land. To Gore, the Holocaust is something involving 100 watt light bulbs. Perhaps if the Gestapo had shined fluorescent bulbs while interrogating prisoners, they could have also participated in saving the earth. And considering the Nazis policy of lowering electricity usage by 6 million Jews, as well as getting many of them to travel by freight train instead of private automobile to concentration camps, they could be considered "sinless" in Al Gore's Brave New World. I actually once spoke with someone who told me he knew of a car enthusiast in Israel whose father in Poland was wealthy enough to own a Buick which he used to take his family to the Russian-controlled eastern part of the country early in World War II, thus saving their lives. I am hoping that since they carpooled, Al Gore has no objections, even though their vehicle wasn't a hybrid and didn't get 45 miles to the gallon - or the metric equivalent.

So by turning off the lights and not traveling much, we are all fighting totalitarianism, just like when an organization publishes an advertisement concerning Darfur or holds a social event. I didn't know fighting totalitarianism and genocide could be so easy. Or so trivialized. This is Limousine (or Gulfstream Jet) Liberalism at its worst and most puerile. This is an attempt to by Gore to redefine the language to redefine reality, something described in Robert Cheek's American Thinker article "Solzhenitsyn, the Prophet." Gore's Redefinition of Reality, coming to a theater near you. Don't buy a ticket.

Jack Kemp

[IIC]

Didn't Al Gore invent the Internet???...or was it Dan Quayle???

Speaking of Dan...What the heck is he doing nowadays???

His site has not been updated in almost 2 years

http://www.vicepresidentdanquayle.com/

Being a good Republican myself...Although politically I'm about as Middle of the Road as you can get...(some might call that Wishy-Washy...lol)...I don't wanna really bash him. Plus, he was always good for a laugh: http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes...hor=Dan+Quayle

[SundialMan]

The Gore piece I submitted on his calling global warming a 'holocaust' got accepted for publication at American Thinker. The link is below, for those of you interested in seeing it. This piece one went through a few changes and additions, but a lot of my original words are in it. My editor wanted to through his "2 cents" into it, as well.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/03/econazis_trivialize_the_holoca.html

[IIC]

The Gore piece I submitted on his calling global warming a 'holocaust' got accepted for publication at American Thinker. The link is below, for those of you interested in seeing it. This piece one went through a few changes and additions, but a lot of my original words are in it. My editor wanted to through his "2 cents" into it, as well.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...he_holoca.html

Gee...I haven't been able to find my editor for several years...Maybe he ran off with Dan???

[IIC]

Wow...I wonder what kind of uproar there would be if this reporter was white???

Getting smart about troubled players

J.A. Adande...Los Angeles Times

Two leagues suffer when NFL player is linked to shooting; education is the way to ward off stupidity.

March 5, 2007


Hearing the cries for the NFL to clean up player behavior and the NBA to straighten out All-Star weekend reminds one of the words of former Temple Coach John Chaney: "You can never end stupidity. Never."

You sure can't end it with rules and regulations. If the threat of punishment were enough of a deterrent, you'd never hear the phrase "prison overcrowding."


[killed ad]
The compilation of Tank Johnson's arrest on weapons allegations, the biweekly Cincinnati Bengals arrests and the latest reports of misdoings by Adam "Pacman" Jones even had fed-up players requesting more stringent penalties for player misbehavior at a recent meeting with NFL and union officials. A union spokesman who was present said that, contrary to reports, there was not a proposed "three-strikes rule."

The thing is, NFL teams already have all the power they need to ditch the bad character guys. The second paragraph of the standard NFL contract requires the player to "conduct himself on and off the field with appropriate recognition of the fact that the success of professional football depends largely on public respect for and approval of those associated with the game." Later, the team is granted this authority: "If Player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract."

The reason it rarely is enforced is that teams get stupid too. Crazy-in-love stupid. They get smitten with talent and will find a way to rationalize any kind of behavior as long as a guy can run a 4.4-second 40. Players will continue to act up, and teams will continue to tolerate it.

The Tennessee Titans knew what they were getting when they drafted Jones. He'd been arrested once for a bar fight while he went to school at West Virginia. That didn't keep them from taking him with the No. 6 pick. Jones was questioned but not arrested after a fight at a strip club after the draft. He was arrested again the summer before his rookie season on suspicion of assault and felony vandalism after another nightclub altercation.

These things can happen to young men. But they don't keep happening again and again to people of good character. You don't see a single story such as this about Donovan McNabb or LaDainian Tomlinson, let alone multiple. Jones has been involved in 10 incidents that attracted police attention since joining the NFL in 2005.

The latest is his alleged connection to a shooting outside a Las Vegas strip club in the early hours of Feb. 19. Here's the NFL's quandary: Police have not arrested Jones or named him as a suspect. Jones, through his attorney, denies any involvement. So far we've heard only the account of the strip club owner. He says there's video of Jones assaulting a dancer inside the club. No one I know has seen it.

Even a man with Jones' checkered past is entitled to a presumption of innocence. Remember when a woman accused members of the Dallas Cowboys of sexual assault and everyone said, "Those crazy Cowboys are out of control again" — until it turned out she fabricated the whole story and wound up being kicked out of the country? The NFL can't be so image-conscious that it tramples on people's legal rights.

Jones is unique in that he has managed to sully the reputations of two leagues at once.

Because the strip club shootings occurred at the end of All-Star weekend, they have been lumped into the criticism of the crowd the NBA attracted to Las Vegas. As if the NBA has any control over who shows up in conjunction with its events, or is accountable for the actions of people who play in other leagues.

The reported mayhem even had NBA Players Assn. President Billy Hunter doubting New Orleans' capability of handling the All-Star game next year.

NBA players didn't cause any problems in Vegas, and they weren't in jeopardy. You didn't hear about incidents at league events or player-affiliated parties.

The players will be even safer in New Orleans, where the hotels don't need to keep access open to the casinos and the players' hotel will return to its usual fortress mode.

That said, if anything can bring Bourbon Street to a halt, it's All-Star weekend. In the last four years, it has managed to close down the Lenox Square mall in Atlanta, the Sunset Strip in L.A. and the Las Vegas Strip. That's an unprecedented trifecta.

Nevertheless, I never felt unsafe in Las Vegas. I didn't witness scary behavior, just a lot of ignorance. Unfortunately, there's still a segment of the African American population that thinks the All-Star game is an acceptable time and place to smoke weed wherever and whenever, walk around drinking Patron out of bottles with two-foot straws, pick up women by demeaning them, and set a franchise record for use of the n-word.

That's not an NBA problem. It's an issue that swerves into the area of education, not discipline. Start with implementing a little knowledge and maybe the stupidity can be reduced — even if, Chaney would tell you, it can never be eradicated.

*

[Tatnic]

I've tried to keep the keep my political arguments here to a minimum,

Sure you have Jack. First of all, I haven't read anywhere that the Jews have copyrighted the word holocaust. If you loook it up in most dictionaries it says nothing about what happened to the Jews and Gypsies in those camps. You right wingers can try to distort the truth and attack the messenger all you want. But you're just adding to the hot air circulating the planet.

So far, the climate scientists (gore is not a scientist, I'm referring to the ones who are routinely censored by your jack-booted administration) have been too conservative in their time estimates on the effects of global warming and climate change. They have for years now been predicting that the planet is warming and that we'll face more severe storms and droughts as a result. Even the most strident, non-scientific blobs in this administration (bush included) agree with the evidence that the world is steadily warming. That's no longer in dispute. The scientist were wrong in their estimates of how long this would take...its happened much faster than they predicted.

The scientists had also predicted that the glaciers and icecaps all over the world will melt--many have dissappeared and are rapidly melting, much faster than they predicted. Just recently a huge chunk of ice dissappear in the Antartic (I believe this was not a glacier, just ice-covered sea) and now scientist are discovering new species that were before hidden from view. The rate of melting of the polar (artic) ice cap is so fast, that in a few years there will be open shipping lanes year round (sorry to break it to you folks, but ol santa has lived on an ice float and he's now been relocated). You also might want to visit the Glacier National Park before its gone. If there's one area of contention in their predictions (and one I too question), its the predicted rise of the ocean levels. I've seen data going back 400,000~600,000 years and no where in that time-frame had the oceans been that high. I think you'll see alot of the global water find a new home on land and in the atmosphere, so the oceans will no doubt rise, but not at the extremes that I've been hearing. Just my hunch.

IN the short-term, they've also predicted that droughts will be severe and loong lasting. Last year we had one of the worst droughts in the west and southwest on record. We already on track to repeat that. And as for storms, in 2005 we had the worst hurricane season on record. Only El Nino (a purely natural physical occurence) stopped that from happening in 2006. Just in the past few months the south has been hammered with tornadoes that have killed over 50 people. When's the last time you've seen that happen? Tornadoes are caused by severe weather patterns when warm and cold fronts collide. We had a tornado in our back yard last summer. It knocked down a swath of huge oak trees like they were toothpicks. A few months before that we had over 15" of rain on Mother's day weekend. Another record...and a record $-wise for destruction of roads and bridges in our state.

You tell me where those predictions have been wrong. Don't bother, I know somewhere in your playbook you find an "appropriate" response.... Stay the Course!!

One things for sure, the next presidential election is a lock. With the war, global warming, annie coulter, etc., even the dumocrats can win this one.

[SundialMan]

"Holocaust copyright"

Tatnic, whereas the Jews haven't "copyrighted" the word "holocaust," we (my parents were in the holocaust) are quite sensitive to it being trivialized.

I would generalize the word to say that anyone who suffered in the Rwandian, Cambodian, Kulack (in the 1930s Soviet Union), Armenian, or Jewish holocausts would most probably not appreciate a comparision with someone driving a gas guzzler or flying in a jet plane.

Mr. Gore's use of regular private airplane flights makes him a much worse carbon footprint abuser than most anyone posting here. I believe it takes more than 50 years to counteract the carbon effect of one private jet flight. And while everyone on the left wants to jump on the "Let's Blame America" bandwagon, China is opening up one coal mine a day and is on track to overtake the US as the world's no. 1 releaser of carbon in the air this year. There is a new film coming out from England refuting much of this pseudo-science. I heard about it, didn't bother to look it up for this post. If you are interested in hearing an erudite counteragument (which I doubt), you can hunt for it.

It is interesting that you use the term "jack booted," a clear reference to Nazis (which also invokes the people victimized by them), when you are describing opponents of global warming theories.

I would ask you what exactly Bill Clinton did in eight years to lessen carbon emissions or global warming? Perhaps you would like to forget that during the Clinton Administration, when the Kyoto Accords came up for a vote in the US Senate, the measure was voted down 95-0. That means, obviously, that most Democrats wouldn't vote for it. Do they were "jack boots" too? Or are theirs just "sensible shoes?" Are the Chinese government and industrial organizations polluting the air also wearers of "jack boots" - or that something just reserved for Western countries?

The Democratic Party has a majority in the US Senate today. They could reintroduce a vote on the Kyoto Accords. If Pres. Bush were to veto it or Republicans were to filibuster, that would account to their responsibility - but that is no reason for the Democrats not to try if they believe in global warming. To the extent that they don't attempt to bring this to a floor vote (Republicans can't bottle up such a bill in committee now), the Democrats would appear to be "jack booted" passive opponents of the Kyoto Accords.

Today it was around 22 degrees in the Northeast. At night, the temperature has dropped to 11. Tomorrow, I may have to take out my snow boots in this 'global warming' weather. Since my name is Jack, I guess you could refer to them as 'Jack boots.'

[SundialMan]

Speaking of Global Warming

Tatnic and others, here is a much better discussion of the technical points of global warming than I could write, although I did rip off his idea about the current cold weather dampening the enthusiasm and belief in global warming by the general population. Mr. JR Dunn, the author, is a writer with a strong technical background. In case this link doesn't work, the article title is "Warming to Failure."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/03/warming_to_failure.html

[SundialMan]

Fantasy & Reality at a Florida Airport

Flying and Civics Class

What I'm about to say doesn't apply very often to the readers of this website.

Most people don't like History or Civics Class. They were bored by discussions of Civics in high school. But they love to fly on vacation, their memories of boring Current Events reports with the dreaded assignments of Mr. or Ms. Whatever far in the past.

In 1989, I flew from New York to Florida to see my parents at Christmas Holiday time. Returning to the rain soaked Ft. Lauderdale airport, it was announced that the flight would be delayed one hour. Fellow New Yorkers all around me bellyached as if it were the worst thing in the world that could happen, totally unaceptable. Although we were flying by jet, these were not jetsetters, but typical middle class citizens with some extra cash, from all appearances. And most of this group had probably sat through an airline delay or two stretching to several hours, I would guess. It was, in fact, no more than a inconvenience. But, eerily, bizarrely, truly one of the worst things in the world was playing out on the many television screens suspended from the airport ceiling.

At the same moment people mobbed the gate service desk to complain about the delay, the Chauchescu dictatorship in Roumania was under seige and falling in vivid street battles shown on broadcast television with a one hour video delay. It was a violent revolution - a real, live war movie - played out before our eyes, complete with the sights and sounds of machine gun and artillery fire. Rebels were shooting tracer bullets into a large institutional building that could have been a government ministry or the Bank of Roumania, as the announcer said many people were dieing, the currency had become worthless and the utilites had been shut off in the capitol. In plainer English, this means that everyone's bank account and life savings (assuming they didn't buy black market foreign currencies) had been wiped out, they couldn't buy food or medicine, had no lights and they couldn't go to the bathroom indoors. All this in a snow driven Eastern European December.

Lowering my eyes from the chaos in Roumania to the room full of warm, well fed people, many of whom were complaining about the delay which was going to cause them to suffer the hardship of missing "Matlock" or whoever was the big hit tv show when they got home that night, I couldn't help but wonder. No one around me in the airport had even mentioned the horrible events unfolding right above their eyes on those overhead tv screens. I was loathe to bring up the subject, believing others would look at me as if I were some kind of weirdo.

Also forgotten by these passengers was Pan Am Flight 103 that blew up over Lockerbee, Scotland on September 21, 1988 - fourteen months before.

If all this wasn't enough to make you count your blessings and change your perspective on a mere rain delay of one hour, I didn't know what was. Well, on September, 11th, 2001 I found out what it took to change the others' perspective. For a few months, anyway.

Jack Kemp

[Tatnic]

Sure you have Jack. First of all, I haven't read anywhere that the Jews have copyrighted the word holocaust. If you loook it up in most dictionaries it says nothing about what happened to the Jews and Gypsies in those camps. You right wingers can try to distort the truth and attack the messenger all you want. But you're just adding to the hot air circulating the planet.

Jack you didn't answer one of my questions about the facts in front of us. Are you saying that all those climate related phenoms were just coincidence? I hope you aren't seriously invested in the markets because with an attitude like that you could find yourself in trouble. What's happened recently has happened. YOu cannot dispute that. You guys can argue all you want about what will happen in the future but you're slowly, losing your audience. Just because its cold today means nothing in the long run.

If you check the heating degree days for the year so far (country-wide), you'll see they're down over 10% below average. That number filters out a lot of static and day to day fluccuations. Just because we had a record warm January does not mean we cannot have a record low today. Global warming and climate change is based on a time-frame more along geologic time, not day-light savings time. And as I said before, if anything the climate group is too conservative in their predictions of how fast things are heating up.

I think the word holocaust is perfectly suited to the potential life threatening effects of global warming. I'm pretty sure the smart money thinks that too....the insurance industry has been gearing up for this for a while now and its not politically motivated. Its all about money. When the insurance industry worries about something its for a good reason, and it ain't politics. Even Jack Welch, one of the right wing heros has written that its just good business sense to believe in global warming and prepare for it. If it doesn't turn out to be as bad as predicted, then that's a good thing. But if you prepare for the worst, then you've hedged properly. I'm guessing that most smart business people agree with this approach and have no illusions about where this is all headed.

So why all the political blustery from the right? Its all a smoke screen and politics....they just don't want to get the blame for doing what they do best....nothing.

[SundialMan]

Tatnic, my answer to you was that I am not an environmental scientist, but I did recommend in a follow up post that you read JR Dunn's article at American Thinker at http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...o_failure.html which has some real scientists refuting global warming threory with hard science. And I also mentioned the futility of celebrities flying around the world in private planes with carbon footprints as big as Godzilla's lecturing the rest of us to stay home in our "Jimmy Carter" sweaters. How do you propose to limit China's huge air polution and carbon footprint? You chose to ignore that issue. I did answer you. I can't help it if you conveniently choose to forget the substance of my reply/replies.

When Jack Welch says something is "good business," he is saying he can make a buck off of it now. He is not saying that is good science. The insurance industry, which you mention in passing while giving no details, is also operating in a political climate and can be threatened with additional regulations. To say that the insurance industry is not influenced by national political causes is absurd on the face of it.

As for the Green Democrats' acting as travel agents for global warming guilt trips, here is what the Democrats, in the person of Al Gore, have in mind, in my opinion. Below is a link to a blog about Gore's carbon credit "investment co." which was formed in the United Kingdom. Why is that? Because you can get tax writeoffs in the UK for carbon credits, thus leaving more of the actual tax burden on the poor and middle class to pick up. It is my contention that the Democrats would like nothing more than to get similar tax writeoffs made part of the United States IRS code. Any tax writeoff is worth more to someone who is rich because a lot of poor and middle class people can not afford to pay a carbon writeoff to a green energy investment company. Before you read below about the English tax scam that is Gore's carbon credit company, I'd say that you should first go browbeat people with private jets and huge homes (like Gore and former Sen. Edwards) and multiple SUVs before you question me as to my "green purity." If global warming it's such a "holocaust" as you imply, then Gore, Edwards, Barbra Streisand and Bill Clinton should move into a row of apartment blocks and sell off their SUVs - because they are poluting/putting out carbon at a much greater rate than I and most Republicans do. For you to say you are for less global warming than applaud private jet owners who are Democrats may draw you praise at a Democratic fundraising cocktail party, but it won't be believed as anything other than hypocrisy in the general population.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/03/al_gore_an_inco.html

Al Gore An Inconvenient Tax Scam
Many have been speculating as to why Gore would establishment Generation Investment Management in England. Thanks to an email, we may now know.

This communication has been issued in the United Kingdom by Generation Investment Management LLP ("GenerationIM") which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority of the United Kingdom

From taxation web UK - looks like something of a tax dodge.

Investors
Investors in Carbon Credits Partnerships are generally likely to be persons with substantial income or capital gains that they wish to shelter from tax - Premiership footballers, investment bankers and directors of the top 100 companies are prime candidates. The potential savings in any example are calculated on the taxpayer being liable at the 40% tax rate.

Partnerships are effectively transparent for UK direct tax purposes, as is a Limited Liability Partnership, in that each partner, or member of the LLP, is usually treated for tax purposes as if he incurred his proportionate share of any partnership trading profit or loss himself. A member of a trading partnership which incurs a loss would usually be able to relieve his share of the trading losses against his income or capital gains.

Expenditure in the first year will almost inevitably give rise to losses which will be, with most partnerships, close to 100% of the investor’s subscription.

[SundialMan]

one last thing...for now

Tatnic, I once did own a private plane. But it got to a point where I felt compelled to ground it because it was getting to be too inappropriate in my life. The thing is, it was made out of balsa wood and was around 10 inches long. And my carbon footprints running up to launch it were hurting the grass in the park.

The Oscar that Al Gore won was flown in to Los Angeles on a private jet from Chicago, where it was manufactured. Talk about the triumph of symbolism over substance.

By the way, Tatnic, when Nancy Pelosi announced she "needed" an Air Force 757 to get home to California (the Gulfstream jet she previously used has a range of 4000 miles: San Fran is 3000 miles from Washington DC), how long a letter did you write her protesting the wasted carbon footprint she would put down would harm the atmosphere and lead to an "environmental holocaust?" Was it a one page letter? A three page letter? A six page letter? How about a NO PAGE letter?

I have had enough of your insipid arguments. Post a reply if you want to, but I don't see much value in my continuing this exchange with you.

Jack

[Tatnic]

Tatnic, I once did own a private plane. But it got to a point where I felt compelled to ground it because it was getting to be too inappropriate in my life. The thing is, it was made out of balsa wood and was around 10 inches long. And my carbon footprints running up to launch it were hurting the grass in the park.

The Oscar that Al Gore won was flown in to Los Angeles on a private jet from Chicago, where it was manufactured. Talk about the triumph of symbolism over substance.

By the way, Tatnic, when Nancy Pelosi announced she "needed" an Air Force 757 to get home to California (the Gulfstream jet she previously used has a range of 4000 miles: San Fran is 3000 miles from Washington DC), how long a letter did you write her protesting the wasted carbon footprint she would put down would harm the atmosphere and lead to an "environmental holocaust?" Was it a one page letter? A three page letter? A six page letter? How about a NO PAGE letter?

I have had enough of your insipid arguments. Post a reply if you want to, but I don't see much value in my continuing this exchange with you.

Jack

typical jack response...alot of prose, but no vapor trail.