New-born Baby's Cans: Making Money in a Down Market

[billyjoe]

New-born,
That's your best avatar yet.
billyjoe

[df21084]

New-born,
That's your best avatar yet.
billyjoe

I agree. Nice avatar.

[MickyMouse]

Great stuff

Thx New-born Baby.

Also check this out: http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnn44906.htm

Popularity of Canadian energy trust unquestioned

by Gyle Konotopetz

18-11-04 In Canada, oil and gas royalty trusts have become the ticker-tape parade of investments. They are all the rage and most of them have lived up to investors? high expectations.
Practically every week we hear about a new CEO hooking his oil and gas wagon to the trust parade and converting to the trust model, often out of frustration that the market wasn?t giving the company a fair shake. Retail and institutional investors can?t seem to get enough of the oil and gas trusts and their alluring monthly distributions. Analysts and money managers have been falling head-over-heels in love with them.

So their popularity is unquestioned. The question that begs answering is whether they have really provided the best returns for oilpatch investors?
This may be a shocker to many but the answer, based on 12-month returns for the largest trust and non-trust oil and gas companies on the TSX, is a resounding no. In fact, based on returns that don?t include yields, it?s not even a horse race. It?s a rout in favour of the old-fashioned, non-trust senior oil and gas companies that don?t seem to get the respect they deserve after lagging the trusts? performance in previous years.

A scan of the 10 senior, non-trust oil and gas companies with the largest market caps shows a return of 43.9 %, compared to a 25.7-% return for the 10 trust-model companies with the largest market caps.
The average oil and gas trust yields an average of about 10 % in distributions to unit holders but, even when those yields are factored in, the old-fashioned non-trusts, which generally pay dividend yields of about 1 %, still have a comfortable edge.

No doubt you?ve heard about how Don Gray, the brash whiz kid of royalty trusts, walks on water (his Peyto Energy Trust has returned 67 % on unit price alone over the past 12 months). Gray certainly deserves the accolades but there are two non-trust oil and gas companies that have outperformed Peyto in the past 12 months.
PetroKazakhstan, the international oil company, has returned 73 % year to date, to boast a staggering four-year run from 40 cents to $ 44, and Canadian Natural Resources is up 70 %.

Rounding out the Top 10 non-trusts are Suncor Energy, +46 %; Western Oil Sands, +44 %; Talisman Energy, +43 %; Shell Canada, +39 %; Nexen, +37 %; Husky Energy, +36 %; EnCana, +35 %; and PetroCanada, +16 %.
On the trust side, only four other companies besides Peyto boast returns on unit price of 30 % or more -- Canadian Oil Sands Trust, +49 %; Bonavista Energy Trust, +45 %; Acclaim Energy Trust, +37 %; and Paramount Energy Trust, +36 %.
The bottom five among the largest oil and gas trusts are Vermilion Energy Trust, +27 %; Pengrowth Energy Trust ?B? units, +3 %; Progress Energy Trust, +3 %; and PetroFund Energy Trust, -11 %.
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Yamaha XT600

[MickyMouse]

AY.UN APF Energy Trust. Drilled 120 wells 3q2004, hit oil 120 times. Need I say more? Okay, it pays 16.4% This is a well run company.
.

I bought some APF energy today. Acclaim and ARC already had quite a ride.

Micky
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XL80

[New-born baby]

Mickey Mouse is no Mickey Mouse

Micky,

Nice buy. And at a good level, too. Usually, AY.UN will ride up to $12.00 CD by the 27th of the month. With oil this high, it should again.

Please tell me: how did you buy it? Scottrade, Ameritrade, Interactive Brokers, etc? I would appreciate your reply just because I am interested.

AE: great stock. Buy it on the dips down around $14 CD. Almost never falls below $14 anymore. $14.10 or less is about as good as it gets.

I hope APF does good for you. I made a nice hunk of change off of it last year, and hope to do so again.

[MickyMouse]

New-born Baby,

Ameritrade, computer screen, and used delayed quote of ay-un.to from yahoo as a reference.

Micky
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[Websman]

Welcome to the board Mickey Mouse!

[MickyMouse]

Welcome to the board Mickey Mouse!

thx. I am catching up all the previous posts. Oct pick contest was great.

Micky (no e between k and y)
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[Websman]

thx. I am catching up all the previous posts. Oct pick contest was great.

Micky (no e between k and y)

Oh yea...m-i-c-k-y! I'm a little slow sometimes...lol

[New-born baby]

NO MLK Day in Canada

Just a reminder. Monday is MLKing Day here, but not in Canada. They will be trading Cans all day.

[Websman]

Newborn, this has turned out to be a fantastic thread! It has given me a vast amount of valuable knowledge. I was going to open up a Scott Trade account, but after reading this thread, I think I'll go with Ameritrade.
I can only hope that one day, I can teach you guys something in return!

Webs...

[New-born baby]

Brokerage Firms.

Webs,

I agree with you that you need a new broker. If you cannot short a stock, you NEED a new broker!

However, why Ameritrade? At $10.99, it costs more than Scottrade $7, and Interactive Brokers is better yet. So my suggestion, (re: suggestion) is that you go all the way with Interactive Brokers.

Thank you for the kind words you spoke about this thread. Webs, I hope you make lots of $$$ this year and every year.

[Websman]

I can't short through my present broker, because I only have one broker as an option through my 457 account, but the big advantage is that I trade tax free. It's a pretty good trade off, as I'm getting to trade with any profits I would have paid taxes on otherwise.

The account I going to open is a second trading account that is not part of my 457 account. This will not be a tax free account but will give me the shorting options. I'll be working with limited funds in this new account for a while, but will continue to add to it.

I'm looking forward to having two accounts. I'll have twice the fun!

P.S. Interactive brokers ain't gonna work. I notice you said that it took $25,000 to open an account with them. I just a poor southern boy...I don't have that kind of cash laying around...LOL

[Runner]

Hey Webs, you can set up an IB account with only 2,000. Just make sure you apply for the margin account if you wish to short. The 25,000 is for day traders. Even if you don’t have 25K you can still Day trade I think but make sure you have funds in your account and be careful of the T-3 rule. I just got IB set up and like what I’m seeing when I compare it too scottrade. The bid and ask prices will blow you away when you compare the two. Like Spike told me 1.00 per 100 shares in and out. You will pay a 10.00 monthly data fee but still I spent over 1,000 last year just in commission with Scottrade. If you’re a swing trader and want an edge IB may be the way to go. If you buy a few stocks per year then you most likely won’t need to change. I have scottrade stil for long holds and IB for swing trading. I hope this makes sense?

[Websman]

Thanks Runner. Interactive Brokers is sounding better.