TA vs. FA ..... a contest

[skiracer]

It's all good Jiesen. We have to do it again real soon but with some solid groundwork before hand just so that we know an understand what we're doing. 2 days is definitely to short a time frame.

[billyjoe]

Ski,
I really expect to hold all of my picks for as long as it takes to meet my goal, but occasionally, a bad one stinks up the joint and may be sold within the first day of trading. On the other side a pick such as PCU blasts out of the gate and performs way above expectations. One of my weaknesses in this case has been to hold off on taking profits until the big gain becomes a small one. Jiesen made the correct choice in selling PCU when he did , I probably would have hesitated and lost what was it 4 points in less than 24 hours. This is not typical of my trading philosophy , but this wasn't a typical 48 hours in the market or was it?


billyjoe

[skiracer]

I think the time frame of just two days wasn't what was necessary for either sides strategys to develope. I guess that when I think of the fundamental side of it I tend to imagine longer periods of holding with a much wider range of stops if any at all giving the position time to breathe and develope across a wide range of market conditions. It's no big and I can appreciate anyone's desire to win and prove their expertise. It was a good idea and we should do it again giving some thought to the layout first. I just wasn't expecting it to go the way it did and to apparently end as frantic as it did in the closing hours of the day today. I had some important business stuff going on today that came up unexpectedly and had to be there instead of here to participate in helping our side. It turned out good and we all learned something about how we might go about it better next time.

[dmk112]

This thing wasn't a competition but rather a race...

[b_cadvantag]

I am in favor of more SPECIFIC rules and less funky math. Also a specific start date and I am going to pick a .ob stock unless someone sets up parameters on this...

[New-born baby]

some suggestions to make it better

Well congrats FAers! Wasn't so easy though was it harhar I hope part of that education jiesen, is never count yer eggs before they're hatched.

But seriously, I agree 'yuk' for the pathetic input from the guys. Maybe they had emergencies to attend to. Maybe they lurked and refused to participate. I'm sure we'll hear it soon enough. But go easy on those harsh descriptions. The single pick today was based on a solid TA plan, in good spirits, in the absence of the team, and to not give up in the face of apparent hopelessness because of non-input and frankly pretty poor entries from some of us yesterday, and TA almost won it from you guys. Whether it counts as good competition in your eyes or simply as one-upmanship and losing the least is a curious question. I could have exited at resistance, and THAT would have been trying to lose the least. But I didn't. I was happy to let the cards fall where they were based on the TA; something I'm dissapointed YOU didn't do with your FA picks. This wasn't really a FA vs TA battle. This was a daytrading battle, where the majority of the TA traders failed to show up! I guess I imagined you FAers would confidently make a pick and stand your ground for the length of the competition, estimating fundamental value and FA targets, not what actually happened.
But anyway, blah blah blah............I had fun in the face of the cockiness I saw and the criticism of my entry, and I'm sorry that you feel such negativity about it.

Anyway, I will look forward to a better planned out contest, and where the participants don't go AWOL, and where any FA entry is going to be given a chance to prove itself over a longer period of time, where rules say you can't sell it unless the fundamentals of it change or it's obviously overvalued for the impressive daily move it has made.

I am sorry I did not participate like I should have, and I am sorry I spoiled the full enjoyment of the exercise.

Let me explain what happened, and give some suggestions to make it better:
What happened to me:
1. I had to be out of the office all day Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and could not prepare. When I agreed to the project, it was some time ago, and I had other obligations pop up. So I just threw one on the board, knowing it was not one I could buy in reality. The timing for having this contest was simply awful for me. Sorry about that, but I have to take care of some other issues first.
2. We did not have a well laid out set of rules to begin with. Perhaps I missed that part of the discussion. I certainly missed the part about putting in a stop, selling, buying, etc. Frankly I thought it was like POTW when you bought one and stuck with it.
3. After I saw BTU pull to plus .10 yesterday, I should have sold, (and in reality would have), but I didn't think I could. I must not have fully studied the rules like I should have. I apologize for the oversight and failure to really get into this thing.
4. Frankly I could tell before yesterday that the markets were going to fall like a rock. Every chart--Dow, NAZ, NAZ 100, Tech sector, all of it-- said it is coming--and still does. Sometimes I am wrong about what the chart says--if you want proof, just look at my thread and you'll find it. But yesterday the gut was aching, and I was shorting GM. I should have entered my real trades in the contest. TAers would have won the thing.


Now for suggestions to make it better:
1. Keep the same two captains, but
2. Pit one man vs. one man, one day at a time.

Illustration:
We have five contestants. Monday pit Jiesen vs. Spike, Tuesday Billy vs. Ski,
Wed . . . Thur . . . Friday . . . . If you want two day competitions, then Monday and Tuesday: Jiesen vs. Spike, Wednesday and Thursday--you get the idea.

Then each man can post his trades, stops, sells, buys, etc all day long. In real time. His post can say, "I bought TM at $92.55 at 10:10 am CST."
"I sold TM at $95.22 at 12:11 pm CST." etc. We can read the back and forth all day. You could even have a rule that a man must post every hour or every two hours, just to make it interesting.
3. Every man must post his chart (for TA), or his writing up, (FA) the night before the contest. Lets' say by 10 pm CST. Yet he can change to a backup plan at any time, but if he does, post why he changed, and why he traded the backup security. Somebody might learn something this way.

I think this will:
1. make the contest easier to follow
2. guarantee individual participation

I apologize for ruining the contest.

I would assume you wouldn't want me for the next contest anyway, but if you should, I need to warn you that I am out of the office this time from Oct 8 through Oct 21. Just be checking the forum at night, but the days are already shot.

[Lyehopper]

Personally.... I loved this contest!

As I stated earlier this was a team contest, we can get to the real TA vs FA deal at a later date.

I am a competitor, I love to win! I think my most wiley cap'n does too.lol Pitched em a curve they couldn't see commin....hehehehe.... Who says FAers always buy and hold and hold and hold.... Sometimes we short and cover in 15 freakin minutes!

We had no clear rules but decided to play any old way. Reminds me of sandlot football as a kid. No rules just dirt, blood and sweat....

I'm mighty proud to be on Jiesen's team, he plays for fun, but he plays to win. He knew my picks were out in left field but he went with them just the same, when he COULD have shut me down and pulled rank. When BMD went WAY south he stood by the pick as the cap'n and took responsibility for the call, he even stood by my "dog eaten" FA on BMD.lol .... Damn! what a leader! I'd follow you into harms way anytime Jiesen.... heck fire! .... Locked & loaded.... I'll walk point!....

[jiesen]

now THAT's team spirit!

As I stated earlier this was a team contest, we can get to the real TA vs FA deal at a later date.

I am a competitor, I love to win! I think my most wiley cap'n does too.lol Pitched em a curve they couldn't see commin....hehehehe.... Who says FAers always buy and hold and hold and hold.... Sometimes we short and cover in 15 freakin minutes!

We had no clear rules but decided to play any old way. Reminds me of sandlot football as a kid. No rules just dirt, blood and sweat....

I'm mighty proud to be on Jiesen's team, he plays for fun, but he plays to win. He knew my picks were out in left field but he went with them just the same, when he COULD have shut me down and pulled rank. When BMD went WAY south he stood by the pick as the cap'n and took responsibility for the call, he even stood by my "dog eaten" FA on BMD.lol .... Damn! what a leader! I'd follow you into harms way anytime Jiesen.... heck fire! .... Locked & loaded.... I'll walk point!....

thanks for the backup, Lye!

[jiesen]

I am sorry I did not participate like I should have, and I am sorry I spoiled the full enjoyment of the exercise.

Let me explain what happened, and give some suggestions to make it better:
What happened to me:
1. I had to be out of the office all day Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and could not prepare. When I agreed to the project, it was some time ago, and I had other obligations pop up. So I just threw one on the board, knowing it was not one I could buy in reality. The timing for having this contest was simply awful for me. Sorry about that, but I have to take care of some other issues first.
2. We did not have a well laid out set of rules to begin with. Perhaps I missed that part of the discussion. I certainly missed the part about putting in a stop, selling, buying, etc. Frankly I thought it was like POTW when you bought one and stuck with it.
3. After I saw BTU pull to plus .10 yesterday, I should have sold, (and in reality would have), but I didn't think I could. I must not have fully studied the rules like I should have. I apologize for the oversight and failure to really get into this thing.
4. Frankly I could tell before yesterday that the markets were going to fall like a rock. Every chart--Dow, NAZ, NAZ 100, Tech sector, all of it-- said it is coming--and still does. Sometimes I am wrong about what the chart says--if you want proof, just look at my thread and you'll find it. But yesterday the gut was aching, and I was shorting GM. I should have entered my real trades in the contest. TAers would have won the thing.


Now for suggestions to make it better:
1. Keep the same two captains, but
2. Pit one man vs. one man, one day at a time.

Illustration:
We have five contestants. Monday pit Jiesen vs. Spike, Tuesday Billy vs. Ski,
Wed . . . Thur . . . Friday . . . . If you want two day competitions, then Monday and Tuesday: Jiesen vs. Spike, Wednesday and Thursday--you get the idea.

Then each man can post his trades, stops, sells, buys, etc all day long. In real time. His post can say, "I bought TM at $92.55 at 10:10 am CST."
"I sold TM at $95.22 at 12:11 pm CST." etc. We can read the back and forth all day. You could even have a rule that a man must post every hour or every two hours, just to make it interesting.
3. Every man must post his chart (for TA), or his writing up, (FA) the night before the contest. Lets' say by 10 pm CST. Yet he can change to a backup plan at any time, but if he does, post why he changed, and why he traded the backup security. Somebody might learn something this way.

I think this will:
1. make the contest easier to follow
2. guarantee individual participation

I apologize for ruining the contest.

I would assume you wouldn't want me for the next contest anyway, but if you should, I need to warn you that I am out of the office this time from Oct 8 through Oct 21. Just be checking the forum at night, but the days are already shot.

I think you're on the right track, NBB with setting some specific guidelines, and here are some of my suggestions:

1. Keep the rules simple, but appoint a referee to interpret them
2. Extend the time to weeks rather than days
3. Make it easier to participate on a tight time budget
4. Make different rules for TA and FA teams, e.g. only TA'ers can daytrade, FAers must make picks in off-hours and buy at the market on the open- but in exchange FAers can submit picks any day and TA'ers only work 1 day/week (or some other plan that forces the team into a TA/FA mindset)
5. At all cost, keep it fun!

[skiracer]

Jiesen,
Let's do it again sometime soon. Like you said make some rules and guidelines and above all keep it fun. I got kind of grumpy myself over the last couple of days with this thing an am sorry if I offended anyone, but that's just me being me. One other thing, I ran point realtime and Lyehopper can have it if he wants it next time for sure.

[Lyehopper]

I hear ya Ski...

Jiesen,
Let's do it again sometime soon. Like you said make some rules and guidelines and above all keep it fun. I got kind of grumpy myself over the last couple of days with this thing an am sorry if I offended anyone, but that's just me being me. One other thing, I ran point realtime and Lyehopper can have it if he wants it next time for sure.

I can only imagine.... one thing to talk about it.... another thing to have lived it.... My "hats off" to ya Ski.

[mimo_100]

I think you're on the right track, NBB with setting some specific guidelines, and here are some of my suggestions:

1. Keep the rules simple, but appoint a referee to interpret them
2. Extend the time to weeks rather than days
3. Make it easier to participate on a tight time budget
4. Make different rules for TA and FA teams, e.g. only TA'ers can daytrade, FAers must make picks in off-hours and buy at the market on the open- but in exchange FAers can submit picks any day and TA'ers only work 1 day/week (or some other plan that forces the team into a TA/FA mindset)
5. At all cost, keep it fun!

Hello Captain Jason,



I just had the opportunity to read what happened since 3:30 PM yesterday October 5.



Here is what I suggest:



Create a yahoo email address for each team.



(I have already done this for us (FA). The user is mrmarketfateam. I will email you the password)



When done, go to zacks.com , click on simulator, and create a logon and password.



(I have already done this for us (FA). The logon is [email protected]. I will email you the password)



Here each team can buy, sell, whatever starting with $100,000.00 Each captain can have the password. You can view the other team, too.



Try it out and tell me what you think



Thanks to everyone, especially the captains and frequent participants. I am unable to participate on an hourly basis, but it was fun and educational.



Tim

[mimo_100]

I am sorry I did not participate like I should have, and I am sorry I spoiled the full enjoyment of the exercise.

Let me explain what happened, and give some suggestions to make it better:
What happened to me:
1. I had to be out of the office all day Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and could not prepare. When I agreed to the project, it was some time ago, and I had other obligations pop up. So I just threw one on the board, knowing it was not one I could buy in reality. The timing for having this contest was simply awful for me. Sorry about that, but I have to take care of some other issues first.
2. We did not have a well laid out set of rules to begin with. Perhaps I missed that part of the discussion. I certainly missed the part about putting in a stop, selling, buying, etc. Frankly I thought it was like POTW when you bought one and stuck with it.
3. After I saw BTU pull to plus .10 yesterday, I should have sold, (and in reality would have), but I didn't think I could. I must not have fully studied the rules like I should have. I apologize for the oversight and failure to really get into this thing.
4. Frankly I could tell before yesterday that the markets were going to fall like a rock. Every chart--Dow, NAZ, NAZ 100, Tech sector, all of it-- said it is coming--and still does. Sometimes I am wrong about what the chart says--if you want proof, just look at my thread and you'll find it. But yesterday the gut was aching, and I was shorting GM. I should have entered my real trades in the contest. TAers would have won the thing.


Now for suggestions to make it better:
1. Keep the same two captains, but
2. Pit one man vs. one man, one day at a time.

Illustration:
We have five contestants. Monday pit Jiesen vs. Spike, Tuesday Billy vs. Ski,
Wed . . . Thur . . . Friday . . . . If you want two day competitions, then Monday and Tuesday: Jiesen vs. Spike, Wednesday and Thursday--you get the idea.

Then each man can post his trades, stops, sells, buys, etc all day long. In real time. His post can say, "I bought TM at $92.55 at 10:10 am CST."
"I sold TM at $95.22 at 12:11 pm CST." etc. We can read the back and forth all day. You could even have a rule that a man must post every hour or every two hours, just to make it interesting.
3. Every man must post his chart (for TA), or his writing up, (FA) the night before the contest. Lets' say by 10 pm CST. Yet he can change to a backup plan at any time, but if he does, post why he changed, and why he traded the backup security. Somebody might learn something this way.

I think this will:
1. make the contest easier to follow
2. guarantee individual participation

I apologize for ruining the contest.

I would assume you wouldn't want me for the next contest anyway, but if you should, I need to warn you that I am out of the office this time from Oct 8 through Oct 21. Just be checking the forum at night, but the days are already shot.

Hello NBB,

Thanks for taking the time to post your suggestions. I appreciate your participation.

You wrote: "4. Frankly I could tell before yesterday that the markets were going to fall like a rock. Every chart--Dow, NAZ, NAZ 100, Tech sector, all of it-- said it is coming--and still does."

I for one would love to see the detail behind your prediction. Would you be willing to share your analysis?

Thanks and have a great day.

Tim

[RL]

Hey Billy maybe when your watching

football and drinking that Smithwitchs lager I sent you and watching the football you could come up with another contest this TA - FA was so much fun?

[billyjoe]

Ray, I was hoping to slowly slip away before anyone remembered whose idea this was.

billyjoe