Rob's Lobs

[ParkTwain]

Summary of gun laws in Virginia

Looks to me that the gun lovers (or should I say the gun shop lobbyists ) have it their way in Virginia.

http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?choose_state=Go&st=VA

[IIC]

Didn't you see the crime spike during the Depression that are shown on the (FBI?) charts you posted?

Also, as you know the U.S. Census data aren't the be-all and end-all of demographic, but it might be the best we have in the aggregate. P.S. How effectively does the Census capture demographic data about underprivileged neighborhoods in U.S. major cities?

Well...I don't have time to take my own census.

I noticed the depression years but I was simply responding to your comparison between the crime rate now vs. the 60's. Your argument about demographics doesn't really cut it...Doug

[Tatnic]

You did not answer my question Tatnic. Paranoid or not, let's try this again.

Do you think the law should make it legal for a citizen to carry a concealed handgun if they meet certain qualifications?

Yes, I never said otherwise. Its not the legal, law abiding citizens that are the problem and its already legal to carry concealed weapons in your own state with an easily obtained permit. Last time I got one it was as simple as filling out a form, but I'm guessing that's not the case any more.

Do you think it should be illegal for any citizen to carry a concealed handgun?

Yes when you pose the question like that....most citizens are not qualified to carry a concealed weapon much less a concealed handgun. Everyone should be subjected to very strict and thorough investigations before they are allowed to carry a concealed handgun....this means background checks and psychological tests. (I for one would want to make sure they weren't bed wetters, cruel to animals, or budding arsonists as youths).

There's no law against anyone in this country (maybe I should say US citizen) from bearing arms....I can take my fully loaded rifle for a stroll down any main street (in full view) in any state in this country and be in full compliance with the law....that's protected under the constitution. I might get arrested for hunting without a license or for some local law, but its protected under the constitution and therefor legal.

[peanuts]

There's no law against anyone in this country (maybe I should say US citizen) from bearing arms....I can take my fully loaded rifle for a stroll down any main street (in full view) in any state in this country and be in full compliance with the law....that's protected under the constitution. I might get arrested for hunting without a license or for some local law, but its protected under the constitution and therefor legal.

I was once driving through the Breezewood interchange off of the Pennsylvania Turnpike a few years back, heading towards DC. After I paid my toll and entered the drive-thru town of Breezewood, I noticed a guy in camo off to the side of the road. He looked like one of those guys in the movies from the 70's and 80's that just got back from Nam and continued to wonder around the country, sort of like Rambo. Anyway, this guy had a gun, or what looked to be an excellent replica of a gun, held across his chest while he marched a one man parade down the middle of the street (yes, he moved from the side of the road into the middle of it). At first sight, he was pretty calm, but I watched him for about as long as I could, and I could see the guy was suffering from some kind of mental anguish. He was talking to himself, maybe arguing (who knows?), but it was quite apparant that the gun shouldn't have been in his hands.

Not sure if you could ever stop something like that from continually happening sporadically. Not sure if anything bad happened. Not sure how this relates to Rob's Lobs, but I felt like sharing, nonetheless.

[mrmarket]

You did not answer my question Tatnic. Paranoid or not, let's try this again.

Do you think the law should make it legal for a citizen to carry a concealed handgun if they meet certain qualifications?

Do you think it should be illegal for any citizen to carry a concealed handgun?

Lye...I think you are an excellent guy and you should have as many guns as you want. I wan you to carry them as often as you like and to almost anywhere you want. To be honest, I wouldn't want you to bring it into my house, however.

I don't like the idea, but if any citizen wants to carry a concealed gun, they have the right to do so, in my opinion. There should be very strict background checks and permitting procedures. If someone really loves guns, this paperwork and review shouldn't be a problem for them.

[Tatnic]

Regardless of veteran or law enforcement status, Park's and Tatnic's "friends" were NOT being careful. I could elaborate but it's a futile argument here.

"Buggy equipment".... You can get killed by owning and operating a badly designed or poorly maintained forklift or tractor.... When researching any equipment, it pays to become educated about the product and purchase the best quality and technology and learn to maintain it properly. Might I suggest the following manufacturers.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/kpd/

http://www.paraord.com/product/category.html?cat=13

And if an autoloader seems a bit too complex? Might I also suggest the following simple high quality revolvers for the ladies.... or the mechanically challenged.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14766&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14752&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...in%20Stainless

true enough Lye...there are around 100 people killed every day in the us in automobile accidents. I can count on one hand the number of people I've known personally that were killed by firearms, but I can't begin to count the number I've known or known about through friends that were killed in automobile accidents.

[ParkTwain]

Come on, Lye, a gun is a WEAPON. When a gun malfunctions, because its operation is designed to be LETHAL, it is even more dangerous than, cough, a tractor to passersby. Let's get real.

There's even a story today about a gun handling accident involving the U.S. Secret Service stationed at the White House. Why is handling a handgun so accident-prone?

But hey, we have a "free market" in health care and in firearms in this country, but neither works very well for the masses.

"US gun laws draw heat after latest shooting"

http://tinyurl.com/2k2pvs

[riverbabe]

Okay, it appears I am in the middle of the OK Corral confrontation. But I feel I have to say the following:

1. We are dealing with actual and potential victims of a killer.
2. We are dealing with college kids that are between the ages of 18 and 21 or more, like your kids and grandkids.
3. These kids have been taught for their total school lives the art of self-preservation; that is, dive under your desk when you feel a tremor, a threat of a tornado, fall-out from a mushroom cloud. Lie on the floor and play dead.
4. The first kids killed in the shooting were in the first two rows of the auditorium. They had no chance.
5 To say that 15-20 other kids might have overpowed the assailant is assinine, becuse there was NO TIME or possible coordination to formulate such a response, whether concealed guns or no guns. It happened too fast.
6. The LET'S ROLL people on the United Airlines jet had the advantage of TIME to formulate a plan.
7. I live alone. I do not have a gun. I believe that if I have a gun I am more likely to be shot by my assailant.
8. I can survive a rape by my own physical assault on the assailant; I cannot survive a deadly shooting. I accept that.
9. I used my foot to disarm my first husband from trying to rape me during our divorce, and saw the very positive results, with him writhing on the floor.
10. I can defend myself better without a gun than with a gun.

[Tatnic]

Okay, it appears I am in the middle of the OK Corral confrontation. But I feel I have to say the following:

1. We are dealing with actual and potential victims of a killer.
2. We are dealing with college kids that are between the ages of 18 and 21 or more, like your kids and grandkids.
3. These kids have been taught for their total school lives the art of self-preservation; that is, dive under your desk when you feel a tremor, a threat of a tornado, fall-out from a mushroom cloud. Lie on the floor and play dead.
4. The first kids killed in the shooting were in the first two rows of the auditorium. They had no chance.
5 To say that 15-20 other kids might have overpowed the assailant is assinine, becuse there was NO TIME or possible coordination to formulate such a response, whether concealed guns or no guns. It happened too fast.
6. The LET'S ROLL people on the United Airlines jet had the advantage of TIME to formulate a plan.
7. I live alone. I do not have a gun. I believe that if I have a gun I am more likely to be shot by my assailant.
8. I can survive a rape by my own physical assault on the assailant; I cannot survive a deadly shooting. I accept that.
9. I used my foot to disarm my first husband from trying to rape me during our divorce, and saw the very positive results, with him writhing on the floor.
10. I can defend myself better without a gun than with a gun.

I agree Babe...its not even remotely nice to say that any of those poor kids in those class rooms had any reason to react other than the way they did, and suggest that if they were armed they might have someone stopped the killer is ludicrous. It takes a special person to react to a violent assault like that. I've read that many soldiers in world war 2 could not bring themselves to fire a weapon and kill another person. They would do other things to help the cause, ie lug ammo or wounded or whatever, but even though they were trained in combat they just could not find it in themselves to kill anyone. But they were there in right in the middle of the battle doing what they could to help out. They weren't cowards, they just couldn't kill another human. I'd be curious to know if Ski saw that happen in Nam.

[riverbabe]

I agree Babe...its not even remotely nice to say that any of those poor kids in those class rooms had any reason to react other than the way they did, and suggest that if they were armed they might have someone stopped the killer is ludicrous. It takes a special person to react to a violent assault like that. I've read that many soldiers in world war 2 could not bring themselves to fire a weapon and kill another person. They would do other things to help the cause, ie lug ammo or wounded or whatever, but even though they were trained in combat they just could not find it in themselves to kill anyone. But they were there in right in the middle of the battle doing what they could to help out. They weren't cowards, they just couldn't kill another human. I'd be curious to know if Ski saw that happen in Nam.

I totally agree. River

[Rob]

Boortz Article—Good Read

Attached is a text file. It contains the text of a column by radio talk show host Neal Boortz and deals with the subject of the VA Tech shooting and gun control. It's rather lengthy but a very good read. If you have a little time, read it. This guy makes a lot of sense to me.

[Lyehopper]

Come on, Lye, a gun is a WEAPON. When a gun malfunctions, because its operation is designed to be LETHAL, it is even more dangerous than, cough, a tractor to passersby. Let's get real.

There's even a story today about a gun handling accident involving the U.S. Secret Service stationed at the White House. Why is handling a handgun so accident-prone?

But hey, we have a "free market" in health care and in firearms in this country, but neither works very well for the masses.

"US gun laws draw heat after latest shooting"
http://tinyurl.com/2k2pvs

Hey Park, have you ever fired a handgun?

[IIC]

Okay, it appears I am in the middle of the OK Corral confrontation. But I feel I have to say the following:

1. We are dealing with actual and potential victims of a killer.
2. We are dealing with college kids that are between the ages of 18 and 21 or more, like your kids and grandkids.
3. These kids have been taught for their total school lives the art of self-preservation; that is, dive under your desk when you feel a tremor, a threat of a tornado, fall-out from a mushroom cloud. Lie on the floor and play dead.
4. The first kids killed in the shooting were in the first two rows of the auditorium. They had no chance.
5 To say that 15-20 other kids might have overpowed the assailant is assinine, becuse there was NO TIME or possible coordination to formulate such a response, whether concealed guns or no guns. It happened too fast.
6. The LET'S ROLL people on the United Airlines jet had the advantage of TIME to formulate a plan.
7. I live alone. I do not have a gun. I believe that if I have a gun I am more likely to be shot by my assailant.
8. I can survive a rape by my own physical assault on the assailant; I cannot survive a deadly shooting. I accept that.
9. I used my foot to disarm my first husband from trying to rape me during our divorce, and saw the very positive results, with him writhing on the floor.
10. I can defend myself better without a gun than with a gun.

I think I stated in the beginning that I would stay out of the Gun...No Gun debate. I have, although I joined the crime rate discussion portion.

To be honest, I can see arguments on both sides...But that is another story.

I don't own a gun...mainly because I think that there is a better chance of an accident than me actually needing to use it in self defense.

However, River...You may believe that you can take care of yourself with your bare hands...But I'd suggest that you carry a large cannister of pepper spray. My wife has one...And I used to carry one...but after the 2nd time I accidently sprayed myself in the face I said forget it.

When you are in areas where there is a higher probability of being mugged or something...It is prudent to have it in your hand...Muggers don't wait for you to get it out of your purse or pocket.

Now Tatnic...You mention the 100 a day that die in car accidents...I checked and that sounds about right...But it is about the same for shooting deaths...Although the highest percentage are suicides from what I found on the Net.

Maybe it is a geographical thing???...But on my way home from work I was trying to count the number of people that I knew or knew somebody that knew people that died in each instance...I can think of a lot more people that died from a gun than a car accident....Although I can think of a lot more that have been in non-fatal car accidents than I can think of people that were simply wounded by guns.

...Doug

[Lyehopper]

Attached is a text file. It contains the text of a column by radio talk show host Neal Boortz and deals with the subject of the VA Tech shooting and gun control. It's rather lengthy but a very good read. If you have a little time, read it. This guy makes a lot of sense to me.

Neal hit the nail on the head.... Thanks for posting that Rob..

[Lyehopper]

Lye...I think you are an excellent guy and you should have as many guns as you want. I wan you to carry them as often as you like and to almost anywhere you want. To be honest, I wouldn't want you to bring it into my house, however.

I don't like the idea, but if any citizen wants to carry a concealed gun, they have the right to do so, in my opinion. There should be very strict background checks and permitting procedures. If someone really loves guns, this paperwork and review shouldn't be a problem for them.

Mr. Market, I do indeed own guns but I'm no gun-nut. I was raised around them and was taught to respect them. As a child was never allowed to play like I was shooting (playing "cowboys and Indians" was not allowed by my father). Instead, shooting and gun safety was something that I was taught by my father as guns were a fact of life for us.

I know literally hundreds of people that are gun owners and I can't think of one single firearm accident (like Park and Tatnic allude to) within the circle of folks I personally know of. I have never had one of my guns accidentally discharge, but I know it can happen depending on the design. The most common malfunction a gun experiences causes the gun NOT to shoot.... or to jam, rather than accidentally discharge. Most malfunctions are caused by a lack of care (dirt and grime in the mechanical action).

To me, a firearm is more than just a weapon. It's is a tool. I use guns to help protect my cattle and rid my farm of pests.... and feed my family within legal hunting seasons. As a mechanically inclined fella, I understand how firearms work.... And I equally understand the damage they can inflict on a living creature. And believe it or not, I am not always armed.LOL!.... BUT I like to have the right to be if I so desire.

OH! and btw I'm rarely in NJ anyway, if you can believe that...SssSsssss!