Hot Pick Of The Day

[New-born baby]

BillyJoe

Newborn,
Were these characters really that evil and twisted or are they just examples of how we should or should not live our lives? Are there any biblical folks who just went about their daily lives without terrible or wonderful things happening to them ?
billyjoe

BillyJoe,
The Bible characters were real people, the events are real, the incidents are true. And their lives serve as an example of how we should/should not live our lives.

[IIC]

BillyJoe,
The Bible characters were real people, the events are real, the incidents are true. And their lives serve as an example of how we should/should not live our lives.

And how do you know that???...I figure that you believe it...By faith...I'm not a super religious guy...But I have my beliefs...I am Lutheran...And Lutheran's believe in faith...It really doesn't matter if all the Bible's messages really happened verbatim...It matters what you Believe in...Doug(IIC)

[Lyehopper]

Here we go!!!!

Lye,
Let's say you had two sons who are less than 13 years old. The eldest, Esau, is all set to inherit your substantial business. Your youngest son swaps a bowl of soup for that inheritance. Would you honor that deal? Probably not.

But the real issue came when Issac was going to bless one of the sons with a blessing. Issac was resisting the will of God. Jacob, working together with his mother, deceived his father and his brother by concocting the stew, wearing the disguise, and lying to his father about who he was. Would you like that? By my measure Jacob was dishonest and scheming and working against his father's will. He was acting like a cheat--exactly what he was. His actions that day earned him the eternal hatred of Esau and Esau's posterity, and his actions would have cost him his life--except God intervened.

No doubt God would have given him the blessing just like Jacob gave the blessing to Joseph's younger son (Ge. 48:8-20). In other words there is a right way and a wrong way to inherit, to gain wealth, to do business. Jacob's way was the wrong way.

You condemn what Jacob and Rebekah did.... The bible does not.

You say "no doubt" God would have done this or that. That is dangerous speculation.... The fact is.... God's will was accomplished and a prophecy was fulfilled. God chose Jacob as the one who would ultimately have the birthright.... And the blessing from Isaac was rightfully and legally his (Jacob's). Rebekah knew this as did Jacob. The important thing here was not what Isaac's will was.... but.... What was God's will?!!!!.... Jacob was blessed by Isaac, but more importantly Jacob was blessed by God.... And through his lineage came the Messiah.

Jacob was loved by God and Esau was hated (Rom. 9:13) (Heb. 12:16) Would God have chosen a person that was a lair and a cheat and all around scoundrel to be the forefather of his Son, the Christ?.... Would God have inspired future bible writers to mention the account and note that Jacob was loved by God.... No.... God chose an imperfect human and used him to accomplish his will, Just as he did David.

You seem concerned that because of Jacob's actions that Esau hated his brother.... Note that Esau's actions earned him the eternal hatred of God due to his disrespect for his birthright. Why should Jacob worry about Esau's feelings toward him when God had clearly rejected Esau because of his bad heart?

Might I direct you to a scripture where Jesus rebuked Peter for speculating contrary to Gods plan.... Matt. 16:21-23.... Be very careful not to think the thoughts of man when a higher power is directing matters.

[Lyehopper]

this is more fun than talkin' stocks!

So I am saying that Jacob sought to steal what God intended to give him all along. Jacob should have waited upon God to give him the birthright. No doubt God would have given him the blessing. The words that came out of Isaac's mouth when he blessed Esau and Jacob would have been the same without the subterfuge. God would have controlled what Isaac spoke.

Jacob sought to steal nothing.... Jacob purchased the birthright legally from his brother.... Who despised it. (Gen. 25:29-34)

How do you know God did not "control" what happened anyway?.... Are you smarter than God? Was there not a lesson learned by the actions of Esau here for all to read and learn from?

Lesson: Value spiritual things that can benefit you for eternity.... Not mere physical things that can only satisfy your belly and eyes temporarily.

[Websman]

Brother Lye...I'm impressed! jejeje

[billyjoe]

Lye,Newborn,Doug,
You are very interesting fellows. All blessed with many talents . A debate on subjects other than business at the Mr.Market convention would be fun to watch.

billyjoe

[New-born baby]

Doug

And how do you know that???...I figure that you believe it...By faith...I'm not a super religious guy...But I have my beliefs...I am Lutheran...And Lutheran's believe in faith...It really doesn't matter if all the Bible's messages really happened verbatim...It matters what you Believe in...Doug(IIC)

Good question, Doug. The word "faith" means "to believe." Thus the two words mean the same thing.

How do I know that the characters/event in the Bible are true and really happened? Because:
1. The Bible claims to be the Word of God. 3,808 in the Old Testament some variation of the phrase "thus saith the Lord" appears. In other words it is claiming to be the Word of God.

2. Because the Bible is the Word of God only, and not a mixture of God's Word and men's ideas. 2 Peter 1:20-21 "But know this of foremost importance: that no prophecy of the Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation; for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." This verse says no one made up any part of the Bible, but it all came from God.

3. Because God has preserved His word from error, distortion, disappearance. Matthew 5:18 Jesus said "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot (the smallest Hebrew letter, about the size and shape of a comma) nor one tittle [a stroke of the pen that distinguishes one letter from another, e.g. the stroke that makes a capitol "R" different from a capitol "P"], shall pass away from the Law until all be fulfilled." Thus Jesus claims to have preserved the Bible until this earth ceases to exist.

Therefore if God wrote the Bible, and preserved it from human additions, and preserved it until the earth ceases to exist, what it says must be true, because God cannot lie (Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:1.

The idea that "it is God's Word if I happen to believe that part that I think is God's Word" [i.e. the idea that some parts are God's Word to me, and may or may not be to you--but it doesn't matter] is not sound. For example, let's take traffic laws. If you drive 120 mph in a 30 mph zone, it won't do you much good to tell the officer that "I don't believe that part of the traffic law." You'll still be punished for that disobedience. And to reject or neglect some part of the Word of God for any reason is not safe.

Thanks Doug

[New-born baby]

You condemn what Jacob and Rebekah did.... The bible does not.

You say "no doubt" God would have done this or that. That is dangerous speculation.... The fact is.... God's will was accomplished and a prophecy was fulfilled. God chose Jacob as the one who would ultimately have the birthright.... And the blessing from Isaac was rightfully and legally his (Jacob's). Rebekah knew this as did Jacob. The important thing here was not what Isaac's will was.... but.... What was God's will?!!!!.... Jacob was blessed by Isaac, but more importantly Jacob was blessed by God.... And through his lineage came the Messiah.

Jacob was loved by God and Esau was hated (Rom. 9:13) (Heb. 12:16) Would God have chosen a person that was a lair and a cheat and all around scoundrel to be the forefather of his Son, the Christ?.... Would God have inspired future bible writers to mention the account and note that Jacob was loved by God.... No.... God chose an imperfect human and used him to accomplish his will, Just as he did David.

You seem concerned that because of Jacob's actions that Esau hated his brother.... Note that Esau's actions earned him the eternal hatred of God due to his disrespect for his birthright. Why should Jacob worry about Esau's feelings toward him when God had clearly rejected Esau because of his bad heart?

Might I direct you to a scripture where Jesus rebuked Peter for speculating contrary to Gods plan.... Matt. 16:21-23.... Be very careful not to think the thoughts of man when a higher power is directing matters.

Lye,
Thanks for the rebuttal. Let me ask you one question: Did Jacob sin in lying to his father? When Isaac asked him repeatedly, "Is that really you, my son Esau?" Jacob replied "Yes" several times.

So again, did Jacob lie or not?
If the answer is "Yes, Jacob lied," then the question becomes this: "Is it God's will for a person [here, Jacob] to sin?" I have a Bible answer to this question. But first I'll need your response

Thank you, Lye, for the response

[billyjoe]

Guys,
Is it possible that the version of bible you were brought up with could cause some misunderstanding ? My wife and I are both Christian but raised in different denominations. She teaches Sunday School and often has lessons from the bible that I've never heard before. Likewise I sometimes question her on a passage very familiar from my childhood and she has never heard it before. Google lists several versions and translations of the bible often tied to a certain nationality.

billyjoe

[IIC]

Good question, Doug. The word "faith" means "to believe." Thus the two words mean the same thing.

How do I know that the characters/event in the Bible are true and really happened? Because:
1. The Bible claims to be the Word of God. 3,808 in the Old Testament some variation of the phrase "thus saith the Lord" appears. In other words it is claiming to be the Word of God.

2. Because the Bible is the Word of God only, and not a mixture of God's Word and men's ideas. 2 Peter 1:20-21 "But know this of foremost importance: that no prophecy of the Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation; for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." This verse says no one made up any part of the Bible, but it all came from God.

3. Because God has preserved His word from error, distortion, disappearance. Matthew 5:18 Jesus said "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot (the smallest Hebrew letter, about the size and shape of a comma) nor one tittle [a stroke of the pen that distinguishes one letter from another, e.g. the stroke that makes a capitol "R" different from a capitol "P"], shall pass away from the Law until all be fulfilled." Thus Jesus claims to have preserved the Bible until this earth ceases to exist.

Therefore if God wrote the Bible, and preserved it from human additions, and preserved it until the earth ceases to exist, what it says must be true.

The idea that "it is God's Word if I happen to believe that part that I think is God's Word" [i.e. the idea that some parts are God's Word to me, and may or may not be to you--but it doesn't matter] is not sound. For example, let's take traffic laws. If you drive 120 mph in a 30 mph zone, it won't do you much good to tell the officer that "I don't believe that part of the traffic law." You'll still be punished for that disobedience. And to reject or neglect some part of the Word of God for any reason is not safe.

Thanks Doug

In your response you proved my point...You Believe it...I believe in many things...But the reason that there are many denominations of the Christian religions is because they interpret the Bible in different ways...Generally the Fundamentalists of each religion try to interpret literally..But even their interpretations vary...Personally...I believe that we should try to be good people...But I do not believe that God wrote the Bible...You say the word "Claim"...So you believe "Claim"...Not a problem to me...But that just means you believe the Claim.

Did God write the Bible? I personally don't think so...Does God control what happens on Earth?...I believe it is true...But I could never prove it.

Why are we here...For such a short time? What is the REAL plan? I've pondered that many times...But I have no answer...Best, Doug(IIC)

[Lyehopper]

Lye,
Thanks for the rebuttal. Let me ask you one question: Did Jacob sin in lying to his father? When Isaac asked him repeatedly, "Is that really you, my son Esau?" Jacob replied "Yes" several times.

So again, did Jacob lie or not?
If the answer is "Yes, Jacob lied," then the question becomes this: "Is it God's will for a person [here, Jacob] to sin?" I have a Bible answer to this question. But first I'll need your response

Thank you, Lye, for the response

There has only been one sinless man to walk this earth....

God used sinful imperfect men to accomplish his purpose many times in the Scriptures. Isaac himself later saw that God's will had been accomplished by this and stated that "God Almighty will give you the blessing of Abraham" (paraphrase) [Gen 28:3-4] .... The fact again remains.... God blessed Jacob and did not condemn him....Isaac (later) blessed Jacob and did not condemn him.... Why should I? (Luke 6:41,42)

[Lyehopper]

In your response you proved my point...You Believe it...I believe in many things...But the reason that there are many denominations of the Christian religions is because they interpret the Bible in different ways...Generally the Fundamentalists of each religion try to interpret literally..But even their interpretations vary...Personally...I believe that we should try to be good people...But I do not believe that God wrote the Bible...You say the word "Claim"...So you believe "Claim"...Not a problem to me...But that just means you believe the Claim.

Did God write the Bible? I personally don't think so...Does God control what happens on Earth?...I believe it is true...But I could never prove it.

Why are we here...For such a short time? What is the REAL plan? I've pondered that many times...But I have no answer...Best, Doug(IIC)

God did not "write the Bible".... He "inspired it" or directed it's content....

If you believe in a Creator powerful enough to make the universe and humankind (I assume you believe God created the earth, man and beast).... Why is it so farfetched a notion to think He couldn't provide us with a book (written by spirit inspired men) so He might communicate with us His will and purposes?

Doug.... The answers to your long pondered questions are within that very book.

[IIC]

God did not "write the Bible".... He "inspired it" or directed it's content....

If you believe in a Creator powerful enough to make the universe and humankind (I assume you believe God created the earth, man and beast).... Why is it so farfetched a notion to think He couldn't provide us with a book (written by spirit inspired men) so He might communicate with us His will and purposes?

Doug.... The answers to your long pondered questions are within that very book.

"Inspired"...That is a lot different than "Wrote"...The Bible was written by man's interpretation...That is why there are so many different beliefs and variations of belief.

[New-born baby]

In your response you proved my point...You Believe it...I believe in many things...But the reason that there are many denominations of the Christian religions is because they interpret the Bible in different ways...Generally the Fundamentalists of each religion try to interpret literally..But even their interpretations vary...Personally...I believe that we should try to be good people...But I do not believe that God wrote the Bible...You say the word "Claim"...So you believe "Claim"...Not a problem to me...But that just means you believe the Claim.

Did God write the Bible? I personally don't think so...Does God control what happens on Earth?...I believe it is true...But I could never prove it.

Why are we here...For such a short time? What is the REAL plan? I've pondered that many times...But I have no answer...Best, Doug(IIC)

Doug,
Again, thank you for your response. Your candor is appreciated.

I have this question for you: If God did not write the Bible, why would you believe any of it at all? You see, if it claims God as its author, and it wasn't written by God, then it is all just a fabricated lie. And you would then have no reason to say that you are a Christian. Are you prepared to go that far? It is the only logical thing to do IF you don't believe God wrote the Bible.

I personally hope and yes, even pray, that you'd rethink your position on the authorship of the Bible. How could men fabricate prophecies hundreds and in some cases, thousands of years in advance--and they all come true? You see the Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by some 40 different men--and they all agree.

I really think--and Doug, this is a friend speaking to you--that you haven't looked closely at the Bible. I would suggest that you start in Matthew (1st book in the New Testament), and read four chapters per day. You'll finish that book in 7 days. It is full of quotations from the Old Testament. These quotations are given after an event in the life of Christ as evidence that these prophecies are true, and that Jesus is the Christ. You'll know its a quotation because it will say "as it is written." If you have a reference Bible, there will a notation next to that phrase which will identify the Old Testament passage that forecast that event. And you can then turn in your Old Testament and see something written hundreds of years in advance that Christ fulfilled.

[New-born baby]

Inspiration

"Inspired"...That is a lot different than "Wrote"...The Bible was written by man's interpretation...That is why there are so many different beliefs and variations of belief.

Doug,
Yes, Lye is correct to use the word "inspiration." I used the word "wrote" to try to make it clear and plain that God is its Author.

The reason there are so many variations and beliefs is, foremost of all, that men do not want to follow all of the Bible. In other words, the message of the Bible is just one, but some men have personal adjendas and therefore refuse to see what is there for them.